2 computers joined by a LAN cable
in [Hardware]
|
From: Paul on 24 Jun 2010 00:39 JD wrote: > GT wrote: >> "JD" <JD(a)No-where.con> wrote in message >> news:88f1reF84nU1(a)mid.individual.net... >>> GT wrote: >>>> "JD" <JD(a)No-where.con> wrote in message >>>> news:88di3fFeltU1(a)mid.individual.net... >>>>> What is the simplest software that would get them talking to one >>>>> another? >>>>> >>>>> It seems that there are numerous ways to do this but lots of petty >>>>> details to work on. >>>>> >>>>> Let's assume Windows OSs. >>>> A short version of Paul's answer - if you are connecting the PCs >>>> together *directly* (not via a network), then a normal LAN cable >>>> (sometimes called patch) won't work - you need a 'crossover cable'. >>> Thank you GT. You have brought back memories. About 20 years ago I >>> actually >>> modified a parallel cable to a crossover. As I recall there was only >>> one wire to >>> be adjusted. I am the kind of guy who loathes throwing away things he >>> has made, >>> so I will go through my boxes to check if I still have it or gave it >>> away to someone. >>> >>> Back soon :-) >> >> Same with a network cable - there are only about 7 wires in there, so >> you just need to swap a few round, but you really need a crimping tool >> to put the connector back on. > > > Thanks again GT. > > I found a USB cable with the usual rectangular plug on each end. In the > middle > is a lump with USB Network Cable written on it. I assume some crossover > happens there. > I have this cable connected to the computer and Netbook and I am having > the same zero success as I had when both boxes were on the network and > both could see the Internet. > Either that USB cable is defective or the software is killing me. That's a "ping pong" cable. Normally, USB cannot be connected between two (peer) computers. It was intended for host to peripheral connections. The "blob" in the center of the cable, contains a chip. The chip has FIFO buffers in it, in each direction. One computer uses it like a "mail drop", and puts a packet in the buffer. The other computer thinks the packet is coming from some peripheral, and transfers the packet when it sees one in the buffer. To use such a thing, needs software. I understand there are two driver package types provided with those products. One is a "network stack". The other is enough connectivity, to operate "file transfer utilities" on either side of the cable. The "network stack" case, should provide roughly the same facilities as using two Ethernet chips and a TCP/IP stack. If you had that driver installed, you should be able to use the network control panel, assign addresses or whatever. I read somewhere, that the network stack had been built-in to some version of Windows, but I don't know what it's called, what files it uses. So either it works automatically, or if you have an older OS, you'd have to install something. Once you have some TCP/IP infrastructure in place, a home networking web site page, should help you from there. If the cable you bought, only seems to support the "file transfer utility" case, then it may not be quite as easy to get TCP/IP networking going on it. It all depends on whether the chip in the blob in the middle of the cable, meets whatever standard they set for it. For Microsoft to include their own driver, implies the USB committee must have defined a standard for it. http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/NDIS/usbrndis.mspx Example of a chip supporting Microsoft RNDIS. This would be the chip inside the blob, in the center of the cable. http://www.prolific.com.tw/support/files/%5CIO%20Cable%5CPL-2501%5CDoc%5CDatasheet%5Cds_pl2501_v1.3.pdf A project mentioning RNDIS in passing. http://vorlon.case.edu/~vxl11/NetBots/usbnet.pdf Paul
From: JD on 24 Jun 2010 01:08 Paul wrote: > JD wrote: >> GT wrote: >>> "JD" <JD(a)No-where.con> wrote in message >>> news:88f1reF84nU1(a)mid.individual.net... >>>> GT wrote: >>>>> "JD" <JD(a)No-where.con> wrote in message >>>>> news:88di3fFeltU1(a)mid.individual.net... >>>>>> What is the simplest software that would get them talking to one >>>>>> another? >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems that there are numerous ways to do this but lots of petty >>>>>> details to work on. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's assume Windows OSs. >>>>> A short version of Paul's answer - if you are connecting the PCs >>>>> together *directly* (not via a network), then a normal LAN cable >>>>> (sometimes called patch) won't work - you need a 'crossover cable'. >>>> Thank you GT. You have brought back memories. About 20 years ago I >>>> actually >>>> modified a parallel cable to a crossover. As I recall there was only >>>> one wire to >>>> be adjusted. I am the kind of guy who loathes throwing away things >>>> he has made, >>>> so I will go through my boxes to check if I still have it or gave it >>>> away to someone. >>>> >>>> Back soon :-) >>> >>> Same with a network cable - there are only about 7 wires in there, so >>> you just need to swap a few round, but you really need a crimping >>> tool to put the connector back on. I'll have to search some more for that early crossover cable. >> Thanks again GT. >> >> I found a USB cable with the usual rectangular plug on each end. In >> the middle >> is a lump with USB Network Cable written on it. I assume some >> crossover happens there. >> I have this cable connected to the computer and Netbook and I am >> having the same zero success as I had when both boxes were on the >> network and both could see the Internet. >> Either that USB cable is defective or the software is killing me. > > That's a "ping pong" cable. > > Normally, USB cannot be connected between two (peer) computers. It > was intended for host to peripheral connections. > > The "blob" in the center of the cable, contains a chip. The chip has > FIFO buffers in it, in each direction. One computer uses it like a > "mail drop", and puts a packet in the buffer. The other computer > thinks the packet is coming from some peripheral, and transfers > the packet when it sees one in the buffer. > > To use such a thing, needs software. I understand there are two driver > package types provided with those products. One is a "network stack". The > other is enough connectivity, to operate "file transfer utilities" on > either side of the cable. > > The "network stack" case, should provide roughly the same facilities as > using two Ethernet chips and a TCP/IP stack. If you had that driver > installed, > you should be able to use the network control panel, assign addresses or > whatever. I read somewhere, that the network stack had been built-in to > some version of Windows, but I don't know what it's called, what files > it uses. So either it works automatically, or if you have an older > OS, you'd have to install something. > > Once you have some TCP/IP infrastructure in place, a home networking > web site page, should help you from there. > > If the cable you bought, only seems to support the "file transfer utility" > case, then it may not be quite as easy to get TCP/IP networking going on > it. > It all depends on whether the chip in the blob in the middle of the cable, > meets whatever standard they set for it. For Microsoft to include their > own driver, implies the USB committee must have defined a standard for it. > > http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/NDIS/usbrndis.mspx > > Example of a chip supporting Microsoft RNDIS. This would be the chip > inside the blob, in the center of the cable. > > http://www.prolific.com.tw/support/files/%5CIO%20Cable%5CPL-2501%5CDoc%5CDatasheet%5Cds_pl2501_v1.3.pdf > > > A project mentioning RNDIS in passing. > > http://vorlon.case.edu/~vxl11/NetBots/usbnet.pdf > > Paul Thanks again Paul. You are a huge mine of information. I have been working all day and am close to exhaustion. I brought my two boxes together with the lumpy cable. As you anticipated, there was no trace of any connection. However, I did have some interesting moments. I managed to copy my Win2K backup disk from my main box to my external drive and I connected that drive to the NetBook. I had hoped that I could copy the backup from there to the D: drive of the NetBook and then install Win2K. I did get it copied ok but when I tried to install - not a chance. Here was the message I was shown: "This CD-Rom is from an older version of Windows than the one you are presently using. Setup functionality from this disk will be disabled." Wow, doesn't MS think that it can control everything? I am close to the point of wiping Win 7 off the NetBook and, while laughing, I'll replace it with Win2K. Will try to answer your considerable efforts tomorrow. Have a great night tonight and a great day tomorrow :-)
From: Paul on 24 Jun 2010 01:43 JD wrote: > > > Thanks again Paul. You are a huge mine of information. I have been working > all day and am close to exhaustion. > > I brought my two boxes together with the lumpy cable. As you anticipated, > there was no trace of any connection. However, I did have some interesting > moments. I managed to copy my Win2K backup disk from my main box to my > external drive and I connected that drive to the NetBook. I had hoped > that I > could copy the backup from there to the D: drive of the NetBook and then > install Win2K. I did get it copied ok but when I tried to install - not > a chance. > Here was the message I was shown: > > "This CD-Rom is from an older version of Windows than the one you are > presently using. Setup functionality from this disk will be disabled." > > Wow, doesn't MS think that it can control everything? I am close to the > point of > wiping Win 7 off the NetBook and, while laughing, I'll replace it with > Win2K. > > Will try to answer your considerable efforts tomorrow. > > Have a great night tonight and a great day tomorrow :-) Windows Oses have support for multibooting on a single physical disk. The idea is, you install the more modern OS, *after* the older OS is installed. Doing so, allows the installer on the more modern OS, to make entries in its Boot Manager for the older OS. If you reverse the order, install Win7 first, then try to install Win2K, then Win2K has no idea what Win7 is. Win7 uses a different boot management method and files, than Win2K or WinXP. There may be chaos if you move forward with that. To back out, you might have to run whatever repair facilities Win7 has. So there may be some method to Microsoft's madness. They may be looking out for you, and trying to prevent your Win7 install from being trashed. In some cases, when I want to understand the issues, I use a Virtual PC 2007 session, and one or more virtual disks, to investigate. The only issue with Windows OSes, is activation, and unplugging the network cable, might be enough for me to do a few experiments. If you want to understand what *could* happen, that provides a relatively tidy way of experimenting. It's certainly cut down on the number of times I've had to physically disconnect disks here to experiment. Your netbook may not have enough room for multiple disks. If you place one OS on each physical disk, that avoids boot manager issues. You steer which OS boots, using the BIOS popup boot menu (F8 or F10) or by using the BIOS hard drive boot order. I use two separate disks here, for my two regular OSes (WinXP and Win2K). I press F8 in my BIOS, to be able to select which drive to boot. Doing it that way, means neither of my boot managers is compromised, with a pile of alternate OSes to boot. I don't regularly use both OSes. One OS is the "maintenance OS" for the other. Booting Win2K, I can do things to the WinXP OS files if I need to. While I've dealt with boot managers and setting them up, I don't really want to run my computer like that on a regular basis. In general, regardless of which OS installer disk I'm using, I find them uniformly bad, and they always assume they can trash any OS they find on the disk. For example, a Debian installer CD, will assume the *whole* disk belongs to it. I find such practices presumptuous. When you stick *any* OS installer CD in a computer, it's "buyer beware". It's one of those times, you should have your full backups completed first. Paul
From: mike on 24 Jun 2010 03:12 JD wrote: > What is the simplest software that would get them talking to one another? > > It seems that there are numerous ways to do this but lots of petty > details to work on. > > Let's assume Windows OSs. > > TIA Get a wireless router with a built-in wired ethernet switch. Doesn't have to be wireless, but it's about the same price, so might as well. Virtually every garage sale has a router for sale. They ask up to $15, but by the end of the day, an offer of $1 will often snag one. From there, it's almost automatic. Read the router manual. Biggest issue is your firewall. Read the firewall manual.
From: J G Miller on 24 Jun 2010 07:07
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 01:43:29 -0400, Paul wrote: > For example, a Debian installer CD, will assume the *whole* disk belongs > to it. I find such practices presumptuous. No, the Debian installer CD will only use the whole disk if you tell it to use the whole disk. |