89C51ED2
in [Design]
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From: Eeyore on 13 Sep 2008 06:48 krw wrote: > rich(a)example.net says... > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:34:28 +0100, Eeyore wrote: > > > krw wrote: > > >> rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > > >> > > > >> > Ir runs under DOS. > > >> > > >> ...assuming DOS still runs. You do like to take risks! > > > > > > What a silly comment. DOS is the only stable product ever to come from Microsoft. > > > > Actually, it didn't come from Microsoft. It came from Digital Reasearch; M$ > > just brokered the usurious deal with IBM that gave us the 8088 PC and all > > the rest. > > The IBM versions of DOS were far better. Never noticed. Can you give an example ? Graham
From: Eeyore on 13 Sep 2008 06:50 krw wrote: > donald(a)notinmyinbox.com says... > > Rich Grise wrote: > > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:34:28 +0100, Eeyore wrote: > > >> krw wrote: > > >>> rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > > >>>> Ir runs under DOS. > > >>> ...assuming DOS still runs. You do like to take risks! > > >> What a silly comment. DOS is the only stable product ever to come from Microsoft. > > > > > > Actually, it didn't come from Microsoft. It came from Digital Reasearch; M$ > > > just brokered the usurious deal with IBM that gave us the 8088 PC and all > > > the rest. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dos > > > > Check the dates of MS/PC-DOS and DR-DOS. > > PC-DOS was from IBM. MS-DOS from M$. DR-DOS from Digital Research came along much later. They'd produced CP/M before that though that would run DOS programs. It had a simple GUI too that reninded me of Xerox Stars. Atari ? used the GUI. Still can't remember the name. Graham
From: Eeyore on 13 Sep 2008 06:58 krw wrote: > rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > > krw wrote: > > > rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > > > > > > > krw wrote: > > > >I saw noadvantage over assembler, armed with suitable macros. > > > > > > > > Speed of writing code. Excellent readability, no need to track memory freed by > > > temporary > variables resulting in superb memory usage, you name it > > > > > > No speed advantage at all, for a half-competent assembly programmer. > > > > You'd trust a kid out of Uni to be able to do that ? > > I wouldn't trust a kid out of Uni with any product firmware. Very wise. I had a great job out of one graduate's attempt at hardware. It was part of a radar actually, a spiral scan display ( r, theta) which was quite clever in its own way but on a 110 degree deflection tube with an offset origin ? Guess what happened ? > > Let me tell you, there's a guy I know whose previous job was technical director of Pace > microsystems > (he's technical director somewhere else now) , the satellite and cable receiver > box people. > > > > Because I was fairly heavily loaded he was asked as a then sideline (before Pace) to write the > code for > an app we had. He wanted to use one his favourite Mitsubishi uCs and write it in > assembler. I TOLD him it > would be an 80C51 and PL/M. At the end of the project he said "I > understand why now". > > He was obviously a crappy assembler programmer with no understanding > of the 8051. He's actually excellent. He did do one job for use with a Mitsubishi micro in assembler but my insistence (since I'd have to maintain it) made him realise the strengths of both the 8051 and PL/M. And I had to do a lot maintenance on that version too. It ended up as V 2.7 When I partially rewrote it for the successor prooduct they all shipped with a beta release since I was sure *someone* would find a bug so I could smugly update it to V 1.0 but no-one ever did find a bug so every one of them has V 0.9. Grahan
From: Eeyore on 13 Sep 2008 07:02 donald wrote: > krw wrote: > > donald(a)notinmyinbox.com says... > >> Rich Grise wrote: > >>> Eeyore wrote: > >>>> krw wrote: > >>>>> rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > >>>>>> Ir runs under DOS. > >>>>> ...assuming DOS still runs. You do like to take risks! > >>>> What a silly comment. DOS is the only stable product ever to come from Microsoft. > >>> Actually, it didn't come from Microsoft. It came from Digital Reasearch; M$ > >>> just brokered the usurious deal with IBM that gave us the 8088 PC and all > >>> the rest. > >>> > >>> Cheers! > >>> Rich > >>> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dos > >> > >> Check the dates of MS/PC-DOS and DR-DOS. > > > > PC-DOS was from IBM. MS-DOS from M$. > > > From link above: > > "History > > The original 1981 arrangement between IBM and Microsoft was that > _Microsoft_would_provide_ the base product and that both firms would > work on developing different parts of it into a more powerful and robust > system, and then share the resultant code. MS-DOS and PC-DOS were to be > marketed separately: IBM selling to itself for the IBM PC, and Microsoft > selling to the open market. However, at no time did IBM acquire the > ownership of the source code of the operating system for its own PCs." Reminds me. What was IBM's GUI ? Many say it was vastly superior to Windows. I've seen it once or twice. Wasn't it 32 bit from the off ? They fell out over it didn't they ? Graham
From: Eeyore on 13 Sep 2008 07:08
Robert Baer wrote: > Eeyore wrote: > > krw wrote: > >>rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > >>>krw wrote: > >>>>rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > >>>>>krw wrote: > >>>>>>rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... > >>>>>>>krw wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>There is nothing wrong with PL/M, other than there is hasn't been > >>>>>>>>support for it for a quarter century. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>What would it need support for ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Bugs (the OS variety, if nothing else). I don't use orphanware on > >>>>>>new projects. I don't need to add risk to projects. > >>>>> > >>>>>Which bugs would those be ? The product is so mature it's untrue. > >>>> > >>>>Try reading. I can't take the risk of bugs cropping up in > >>>>unsupported software. If there are no bugs in the compiler (don't > >>>>believe it) Windows will install them. > >>> > >>>Ir runs under DOS. > >> > >>...assuming DOS still runs. You do like to take risks! > > > > > > What a silly comment. DOS is the only stable product ever to come from Microsoft. > > NO risks whatever plus the compile time on a modern PC is in the blink of an > > eyelid. Shame really since even with fast ATs it was time enough to go get a > > coffee. > > > > I can remember when applications NEVER crashed. > > > > Graham > > Case in point..Pawn Shops use software to manage their inventory as > well as create reports for the BATF on demand. > Almost all of them $pend thousands of dollars for fancy WinDoze > programs that appear to do a half-way reasonable job, except...the damn > OS crashes more than once a week on a semi-ranDUMB basis. > There are a few that use not-so-fancy DOS programs, some of which > give moer realistic support...and never crash (well, except when the > power goes out). I can well believe it. Stuff didn't seem to crash much under W3.1(1) either IIRC. But then it used DOS of course. Graham |