A GRAND ILLUSION OF TIME
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From: PD on 18 Jun 2010 16:17 On Jun 16, 3:04 am, Peter Riedt <rie...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > A GRAND ILLUSION OF TIME > Time is a human concept; it requires an intelligent memory (such as > the human brain) to have relevance. Time and the notions of past, > present and future were invented by man to order events into a > sequence by identifying them as having occurred before, during or > after other events. Present or current time is a human sensation > caused by observing material objects not affected by change or > perceiving a sequence of macro events through human sensory facilities > as still happening or anticipating them when in fact they are already > physically completed or have not yet started. A unit of time is an > arbitrary time interval established for practical human purposes and > derived from and based on a repeatable cyclical physical process. > Duration is a period of time starting and ending with specific events > identifiable by man and separated by his units of time. All time > concepts are used by man to understand, describe and predict the > causes and effects of natural processes. > > While time is essential to man, it does not exist in the universe or > in nature as an absolute or relative entity or anything at all. Nature > is concerned only with the state of the world, as it exists at a given > moment. It does not know of the past or the future. The physical state > of the universe and the extent and direction of the forces in it at > each moment is the cause of its state at the next moment and each past > or future moment is not planned, predicted, measured or remembered by > nature. Time, whichever way defined by man, is not required for nature > to function or progress. > > Peter Riedt The notion of time reflects the fact that certain processes that have two or more identifiable milestones can be reliably compared. For example, a pendulum is observed to swing back and forth, and there is a milestone associated with the pendulum arriving at one extremum of its motion and another associated with the other extremum of its motion. As another example, a specific volume liquid water at 100 C over a heat source begins to boil at one milestone, and is completely converted to gaseous water at another milestone. What is remarkable is that there is a reliable and predictable relationship between how many milestone pairs in the pendulum will correspond to the milestone pair for the vaporization of that volume of water. Note that this relationship is one that belongs to nature and not to one of the human mind, because it will happen consistently in that ratio whether observed or not. All humans do when they make measurements of this correspondence is that they tend to refer to a standard milestone pair, against which all others will be ultimately referenced. They do this for convenience and for communicating, because it would be awkward one day to compare to number of pendulum swings and another day to the number of intervals for a penny falling a yard. PD
From: BURT on 18 Jun 2010 18:36 On Jun 16, 1:04 am, Peter Riedt <rie...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > A GRAND ILLUSION OF TIME > Time is a human concept; it requires an intelligent memory (such as > the human brain) to have relevance. Time and the notions of past, > present and future were invented by man to order events into a > sequence by identifying them as having occurred before, during or > after other events. Present or current time is a human sensation > caused by observing material objects not affected by change or > perceiving a sequence of macro events through human sensory facilities > as still happening or anticipating them when in fact they are already > physically completed or have not yet started. A unit of time is an > arbitrary time interval established for practical human purposes and > derived from and based on a repeatable cyclical physical process. > Duration is a period of time starting and ending with specific events > identifiable by man and separated by his units of time. All time > concepts are used by man to understand, describe and predict the > causes and effects of natural processes. > > While time is essential to man, it does not exist in the universe or > in nature as an absolute or relative entity or anything at all. Nature > is concerned only with the state of the world, as it exists at a given > moment. It does not know of the past or the future. The physical state > of the universe and the extent and direction of the forces in it at > each moment is the cause of its state at the next moment and each past > or future moment is not planned, predicted, measured or remembered by > nature. Time, whichever way defined by man, is not required for nature > to function or progress. > > Peter Riedt You have had a false epiphany. I have seen it in people before. You cannot divorce time flow from energy. Mitch Raemsch
From: Hayek on 19 Jun 2010 17:35 Sue... wrote: > About 65 million years ago an asteroid entered > out atmosphere. Some *TIME* later it impacted > on the Yucatan peninsula. Time must be of > significance to dinosaurs too because if > the rock had taken more *TIME* to cover > its final kilometer, the large dinosaurs > might still inhabit this planet. You mean "if it had *MOVED* slower".... Uwe Hayek. -- We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion : the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history. -- Ayn Rand I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- Thomas Jefferson. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill.
From: Peter Riedt on 19 Jun 2010 22:51 On Jun 18, 11:19 pm, harald <h...(a)swissonline.ch> wrote: > On Jun 18, 4:14 am, Peter Riedt <rie...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > On Jun 17, 1:30 pm, Thomas Heger <ttt_...(a)web.de> wrote: > > [..] > > > Thomas, clocks divide a period of 24 hours into 3600 minutes or > > 86400 seconds or > > smaller divisions using a mechanical process such as a pendulum > > swing that is governed > > by the law of inertia. They do as you say count something that > > occurs repeatedly but there is > > no timekeeping by nature including forces or laws that vary the > > rate of time. > > Here you confuse (on purpose?) a human concept ("time") with a > physical instrument (a clock). Do you claim that inertia and forces do > not affect clock rate? Evidence shows otherwise. > Harald, no confusion here. The clock is a device to measure time according to human concepts and requirements. A clock does not equal time. Forces affect clock rates, i.e. the greater a gravitational attraction is, the faster the weights that drive a pendulum clock will descend. Peter Riedt
From: Mathal on 20 Jun 2010 02:17
On Jun 19, 7:51 pm, Peter Riedt <rie...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > On Jun 18, 11:19 pm, harald <h...(a)swissonline.ch> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 4:14 am, Peter Riedt <rie...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > > On Jun 17, 1:30 pm, Thomas Heger <ttt_...(a)web.de> wrote: > > > [..] > > > > Thomas, clocks divide a period of 24 hours into 3600 minutes or > > > 86400 seconds or > > > smaller divisions using a mechanical process such as a pendulum > > > swing that is governed > > > by the law of inertia. They do as you say count something that > > > occurs repeatedly but there is > > > no timekeeping by nature including forces or laws that vary the > > > rate of time. > > > Here you confuse (on purpose?) a human concept ("time") with a > > physical instrument (a clock). Do you claim that inertia and forces do > > not affect clock rate? Evidence shows otherwise. > > Harald, no confusion here. The clock is a device to measure time > according to > human concepts and requirements. A clock does not equal time. Forces > affect > clock rates, i.e. the greater a gravitational attraction is, the > faster the weights > that drive a pendulum clock will descend. > > Peter Riedt You have that backwards Peter. Increased gravity slows the rate of time. Increased velocity slows time. You are right, gravity alters the rate of time. Mathal |