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From: Mike Easter on 17 May 2010 13:37
Bob wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> Exercise 2: I want to attach the device via the ethernet port (WAN or
>> LAN) of a router2. I want the router2 to be the heart of a sub-network.
>> The AP (or Bridge) will be communicating wirelessly to the AP (or
>> router1 integrated AP) of the other network, and the computers connected
>> to the router2 wired or wirelessly will be getting their NAT IPs from
>> router2.
> From Manual:-
> WDS (Bridge)
> The WDS mode converts the Access Point to a wireless bridge. It bridges
> the network clients from physically separate LANs into one virtual LAN.
> You will need to use ap431w access points throughout your network. This
> mode will not work if you try to use them with any other brand of access
> point.

I don't 'accept' that statement about WDS not working except between two
431s. I don't understand why that would be (with my limited networking
tech level of understanding) and I don't know what would be so 'unique'
about a wireless signal that would make an airlink AP431W not be able to
talk to an airlink AP421W, for example, or any of a number of other
a/ps, such as an Airlink AR325W; to say nothing of some other brands
which might have the same wireless chipsets and other characteristics.


--
Mike Easter
From: Bob on 17 May 2010 13:58
On 17/05/2010 18:37, Mike Easter wrote:
> Bob wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>>> Exercise 2: I want to attach the device via the ethernet port (WAN or
>>> LAN) of a router2. I want the router2 to be the heart of a sub-network.
>>> The AP (or Bridge) will be communicating wirelessly to the AP (or
>>> router1 integrated AP) of the other network, and the computers connected
>>> to the router2 wired or wirelessly will be getting their NAT IPs from
>>> router2.
>> From Manual:-
>> WDS (Bridge)
>> The WDS mode converts the Access Point to a wireless bridge. It
>> bridges the network clients from physically separate LANs into one
>> virtual LAN. You will need to use ap431w access points throughout your
>> network. This mode will not work if you try to use them with any other
>> brand of access point.
>
> I don't 'accept' that statement about WDS not working except between two
> 431s. I don't understand why that would be (with my limited networking
> tech level of understanding) and I don't know what would be so 'unique'
> about a wireless signal that would make an airlink AP431W not be able to
> talk to an airlink AP421W, for example, or any of a number of other
> a/ps, such as an Airlink AR325W; to say nothing of some other brands
> which might have the same wireless chipsets and other characteristics.
>
>
The problem is that WDS is not a "standard" and is not necessarily
implemented the same way in devices. I can't be bothered to trawl all
the manufacturers but for instance take belkin:-
"Note: The WDS feature is not completely specified in IEEE or WiFi
standards. Therefore interoperability between 802.11 products of
different Vendors is not guaranteed.We can only recommend and advise on
setting up a Wireless Bridge between the Belkin Devices listed on the
following page. Please take care to note the Version of the Hardware as
well as the Model Number as this may change the nature of the devices
compatibility with WDS. The WPA encryption type is not supported over a
Wireless Bridge and in such instances WEP is the compatible encryption
type."
<http://www.belkin.com/uk/old-support/tech/f5d8230/a%20guide%20to%20wireless%20bridging%20(wds).pdf>
From: Char Jackson on 17 May 2010 15:47
On Mon, 17 May 2010 10:32:57 -0700, Mike Easter <MikeE(a)ster.invalid>
wrote:

>Yes. Because of the (somewhat awkward) way I am doing this, whenever I
>change something such as putting the 431 from the computer to the switch
>and then back to the computer again, I powerdown the switch and the 431
>and the computer, ethernet the 431 to the switch instead of the
>computer, powerup the switch then the 431, open the 431 configuration
>page with another computer on the network, make the changes, powerdown
>the switch and the 431, move the 431's ethernet to the computer instead
>of the switch, powerup the switch then the 431 then the computer.

In the ~23 years that I've been playing with networking, I haven't
bothered to power down any equipment when I make cabling changes.
Perhaps I've been lucky, I don't know.

>Just to make things a little more complicated, the computer I'm using
>with the 431 has wireless which I haven't reconfigred to be disabled on
>startup, so whenever it gets powered up again, its integrated wireless
>is connected with an IP - so then I disable that to prevent confusion on
>my part and on such as a browser's part about which connectivity to use
>- local connection (to the 431) instead of the integrated wireless.

No question, you aren't making this easy for yourself.

I've done (and am doing) everything you're trying to do, but I'm using
multiple Linksys WRT54GL's so my experience probably doesn't apply, at
least from a step by step perspective. Hang in there, you'll get it.

From: Mike Easter on 17 May 2010 15:53
Mike Easter wrote:

> Exercise 1: I want to attach the device via the ethernet port of a
> computer and access a wireless network.

I was only able to do that open, no security. I could not successfully
configure for WPA or WEP. That is, I could configure for that, but I
could not achieve connectivity.

> Exercise 2: I want to attach the device via the ethernet port (WAN or
> LAN) of a router2.

I was not able to do this at all. I used the WAN port on the router to
ethernet the 431 and a computer to a LAN port. That situation is very
difficult to troubleshoot, because the 431 is 'invisible' in the middle,
so none of the troubleshooting tools I was using did any good.

The troubleshooting only went as far as from the computer to the router,
which was working just fine. That is, the computer had a local
connection to the router and the computer which was wirelessly equipped
could also see the router's wireless. It seemed that the router had an
IP which I assumed came from the 431 which was connect to the other
network's AP, but maybe it didn't.

In any case, the computer couldn't get 'past' the router to see the
internet. Or the 431 which was ethernetted to the router's WAN.

In the configuration of the 431, one option was to configure it as a WDS
or as a WDS with accesspoint. I configured it 'just' as a WDS.


--
Mike Easter
From: Mike Easter on 17 May 2010 16:56
Char Jackson wrote:

> In the ~23 years that I've been playing with networking, I haven't
> bothered to power down any equipment when I make cabling changes.
> Perhaps I've been lucky, I don't know.

The other day I was trying to find out something in the wikipedia about
keyboard and mouse connections and I learned that there was potential
'danger' to the mobo from the PS/2 hot swap. The risk factor isn't
high, but it isn't zero either.

I have never been sure about hotswapping ethernets. I have made changes
hot, but in this case, the switch I was using to configure the 431 was
the same switch that was connecting for the access point which was
(also) being reconfigured for open vs wep vs wpa. I wanted to be sure
that the switch was 'straight' with the network so that there wasn't one
more source of confusion when I couldn't get connectivity.

So, I figured I might as well powercycle the switch and since it was
being power cycled, the poweroff stage might as well be the part when I
was switching cables.

The other 'normal' AP in the mix, the 421, would sometimes 'act up' when
it would be rebooted by software saving a new configuration, and it
would also then need to be powercycled because its lights would go
whacky and its webpage become unaccessible.

> No question, you aren't making this easy for yourself.

At each step, I thought I was 'just about thru' so I didn't bother
killing the integrated wireless on the test laptop.

> I've done (and am doing) everything you're trying to do, but I'm using
> multiple Linksys WRT54GL's so my experience probably doesn't apply, at
> least from a step by step perspective. Hang in there, you'll get it.

Actually I would like to hear about what you've done with the linksys,
because I'm getting ready to dd-wrt (or some other firmware mod) the
little Fry's router. Maybe it could have more capability than what I'm
trying with this airlink multifunction + trendnet router. I'm not
actually so very happy with all I've accomplished so far.

I could use the 431 as a remote AP in the particular situation I'll be
in the next week or so because I believe that wireless is just open, but
I was hoping to be able to make a subnet off that AP as a bridge.


--
Mike Easter
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