AVR32 destiny or destination (Ulf Samuelsson RSVP)
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From: Ulf Samuelsson on 1 Jun 2010 18:46 larwe skrev: > On May 31, 6:50 am, Chris H <ch...(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: > >> Any one doing serious development will be able to get 10-20 parts as >> free samples so no need of Digikey. > > Ha. I work for a company with around US$33BN in market capitalization. > We use HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Atmel devices a year. > > Per policy, it is extremely difficult to get more than 5 samples of > any part out of Atmel. Direct or through disti, it is just not > possible. You have to get your rep to split the orders into multiple > fake orders to fake customers just to get 20 parts. This is what I tell customers: Atmels sample policy is 5 free samples without questions beeing asked. If more than 5 are ordered, the sample order is put on hold, until it gets approval. If someone in Atmel sales or in distribution enters the order, it is their job to ask the correct person for approval. I rarely ask for more than 5, but when I do and ask for approval, I never got refused. -- Best Regards Ulf Samuelsson These are my own personal opinions, which may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
From: Ulf Samuelsson on 1 Jun 2010 18:46 larwe skrev: > On May 31, 6:50 am, Chris H <ch...(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: > >> Any one doing serious development will be able to get 10-20 parts as >> free samples so no need of Digikey. > > Ha. I work for a company with around US$33BN in market capitalization. > We use HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Atmel devices a year. > > Per policy, it is extremely difficult to get more than 5 samples of > any part out of Atmel. Direct or through disti, it is just not > possible. You have to get your rep to split the orders into multiple > fake orders to fake customers just to get 20 parts. This is what I tell customers: Atmels sample policy is 5 free samples without questions beeing asked. If more than 5 are ordered, the sample order is put on hold, until it gets approval. If someone in Atmel sales or in distribution enters the order, it is their job to ask the correct person for approval. I rarely ask for more than 5, but when I do and ask for approval, I never got refused. -- Best Regards Ulf Samuelsson These are my own personal opinions, which may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
From: Ulf Samuelsson on 1 Jun 2010 18:54 David Brown skrev: > On 31/05/2010 11:48, StoneThrower wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Can someone (perhaps resident Atmel guru Ulf Samuelsson RSVP) arguably >> explain how AVR32 is posioned against competition in terms of market >> share and future "road map". I guess I'm asking for a kind of marketing >> pitch to convince me that investing money in development tools and time >> in learning them is a "good" investment in a long run, in contrast with >> the same time/money dilema pertaining ARMs (therefore ***no*** PIC32 >> dilema here). >> >> I'm not asking for a ARM vs AVR32 technical dissection(s), although I >> wouldn't mind, just some courage to jump into deep AVR32 waters. I still >> have a kind of fobia regarding infamous Hitachi's "6 months notice >> before EOL". >> > > The big AVR32 devices, AP7xxx, seem to have died without much warning. > The planned new generation devices never appeared, I guess the second generation chips I have at my desk running Linux, are just imagination then ;-) Needed a respin, but people decided to spend the money elsewhere. When you have mobile phone companies prepared to commit for x Mu/year, the bean counters have their say. > and then the existing > devices were suddenly re-labelled "mature" and re-filed in the attic in > Atmel's website. It's a pity, since they had a lot of value for money, > a lot of processing power per milliamp, and good support on the software > side (solid gcc port from Atmel, buildroot embedded Linux environment, > evaluation cards, etc.). > Yes, talked to the guys at the OpenWRT project, and they told me that in that priceclass, the AP7000 was unbeatable. > Last I heard, the UC3 AVR32 microcontroller line was solid and with new > parts in development. The tools are not expensive - you can use the > same jtag debugger for the AVR32 and the 8-bit AVR micros, and the avr32 > studio is a free download along with a complete gcc toolchain. For > those who prefer to pay money, I gather there is also an IAR toolchain - > I don't know how it compares in code generation quality. > All the internal benchmarking is done with the gcc compiler so you get decent performance out of the free toolchain. IAR has some advantages, like early support for floating point. -- Best Regards Ulf Samuelsson These are my own personal opinions, which may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
From: David Brown on 2 Jun 2010 03:21 On 02/06/2010 00:54, Ulf Samuelsson wrote: > David Brown skrev: >> On 31/05/2010 11:48, StoneThrower wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Can someone (perhaps resident Atmel guru Ulf Samuelsson RSVP) arguably >>> explain how AVR32 is posioned against competition in terms of market >>> share and future "road map". I guess I'm asking for a kind of marketing >>> pitch to convince me that investing money in development tools and time >>> in learning them is a "good" investment in a long run, in contrast with >>> the same time/money dilema pertaining ARMs (therefore ***no*** PIC32 >>> dilema here). >>> >>> I'm not asking for a ARM vs AVR32 technical dissection(s), although I >>> wouldn't mind, just some courage to jump into deep AVR32 waters. I still >>> have a kind of fobia regarding infamous Hitachi's "6 months notice >>> before EOL". >>> >> >> The big AVR32 devices, AP7xxx, seem to have died without much warning. >> The planned new generation devices never appeared, > > I guess the second generation chips I have at my desk running Linux, are > just imagination then ;-) As far as us mere mortals are concerned, the chips never appeared - no web pages, no press releases (as far as I saw), or anything but rumours. Actually, it's nice to know that you had the chip in a working sample - it shows that Atmel had a working prototype device before activating the marketing machine. That implies that when they /do/ market and publicise a new device, they probably have working hardware. > Needed a respin, but people decided to spend the money elsewhere. > When you have mobile phone companies prepared to commit for x Mu/year, > the bean counters have their say. > Yes, I know how it goes - it's the big customers that have a big effect, and us little guys just tag along. I've always thought the AVR32 would be hard to sell against the various ARM devices, especially as Atmel makes ARMs themselves. I know there are differences between the cores - we picked the AP7000 rather than an ARM for a project. But for many customers, ARM is the standard and that trumps things like power consumption and even price to some extent. > >> and then the existing devices were suddenly re-labelled "mature" and >> re-filed in the attic in Atmel's website. It's a pity, since they had >> a lot of value for money, a lot of processing power per milliamp, and >> good support on the software side (solid gcc port from Atmel, >> buildroot embedded Linux environment, evaluation cards, etc.). >> > > Yes, talked to the guys at the OpenWRT project, and they told > me that in that priceclass, the AP7000 was unbeatable. > >> Last I heard, the UC3 AVR32 microcontroller line was solid and with >> new parts in development. The tools are not expensive - you can use >> the same jtag debugger for the AVR32 and the 8-bit AVR micros, and the >> avr32 studio is a free download along with a complete gcc toolchain. >> For those who prefer to pay money, I gather there is also an IAR >> toolchain - I don't know how it compares in code generation quality. >> > > All the internal benchmarking is done with the gcc compiler > so you get decent performance out of the free toolchain. > IAR has some advantages, like early support for floating point. >
From: rickman on 3 Jun 2010 12:16
On Jun 1, 6:46 pm, Ulf Samuelsson <u...(a)a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote: > larwe skrev: > > > On May 31, 6:50 am, Chris H <ch...(a)phaedsys.org> wrote: > > >> Any one doing serious development will be able to get 10-20 parts as > >> free samples so no need of Digikey. > > > Ha. I work for a company with around US$33BN in market capitalization. > > We use HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Atmel devices a year. > > > Per policy, it is extremely difficult to get more than 5 samples of > > any part out of Atmel. Direct or through disti, it is just not > > possible. You have to get your rep to split the orders into multiple > > fake orders to fake customers just to get 20 parts. > > This is what I tell customers: > Atmels sample policy is 5 free samples without questions beeing asked. > If more than 5 are ordered, the sample order is put on hold, until it > gets approval. > > If someone in Atmel sales or in distribution enters the order, it is > their job to ask the correct person for approval. > > I rarely ask for more than 5, but when I do and ask for approval, > I never got refused. Sometimes "samples" are for prototyping. Other times "samples" are just to save the hassle of ordering through channels for a pre- production run (delays, small quantity costs, etc). I once asked Harris for samples on a 7400 type part and was refused because they figured I should know how it worked. I asked for bloody three pieces of a 10 cent part!!! Needless to say I didn't design in the Harris part, but then I don't think the company shut down because of it either. Unless the part is hot off the press and hard to get, samples are more a courtesy than anything. Like a sales person buying lunch. I can afford to buy my own lunch, but it shows they have some value for your business. I can also afford to buy my own samples, but getting them without having to generate the paper trails of procurement can be a cool breeze on a sweltering hot work day. On the other hand, engineers shouldn't abuse samples and ask for more than needed or for parts you aren't really thinking hard about using. Personally I have no use for parts sitting on my shelf. I much prefer to put them on boards and ship them out to customers... ;^) Rick |