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From: Mike Dobony on 17 Jun 2008 09:20 On 16 Jun 2008 21:43:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote: > Mike Dobony <sword(a)notasarian-host.net> wrote: >> >>I basically agree, but you can't fix clipping. Compression on the FOH >>would be limited to mainly keep from clipping. If I need to leave to help >>out somewhere else and someone decides to play I don't want to clip either >>FOH or the recording. Basically, I'm not sure I don't need it. > > A compressor cannot fix clipping. If your levels are high enough, you > can clip the input of the compressor just as easily as the input of the > converters. Just turn it down low enough that the PA guy's console > clips before your recorder does. That won't fix it either, but at least > it won't be _your_ fault. > --scott What about the more likely problem, extreme dynamic range? When I speak in similar situations I go from a normal speaking voice to yelling (my topic is personal safety). Wouldn't a soft knee be a good idea in such cases? This is my primary concern. Clipping the speakers is second. I will be the console operator, but as the troubleshooter also I may have to leave at times. I have no idea what the speakers will do, I never heard them before. Of course, for the soft knee a compressor in the mic signal path would be ideal, but that is later down the road.
From: Chris Whealy on 17 Jun 2008 09:43 Mike Dobony wrote: > I basically agree, but you can't fix clipping. Compression on the FOH > would be limited to mainly keep from clipping. If I need to leave to help > out somewhere else and someone decides to play I don't want to clip either > FOH or the recording. Basically, I'm not sure I don't need it. > If your mic input is clipping, then your gain structure is wrong. You'll need to adjust the mic's input level so that the loudest sound you can produce does not result in any clipping at the input stage. If this then results in your normal speaking voice being too quiet, then use the output gain of the compressor to boost the level. How you adjust your compressor is determined by how much control you want to exert over the dynamic range of that channel. If you require alot of dynamic range for effect, then use a lower compression ratio; however, I can't judge this for you. Chris W -- The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long, But the words of the wise are quiet and few. ---
From: Scott Dorsey on 17 Jun 2008 10:39 Mike Dobony <sword(a)notasarian-host.net> wrote: >On 16 Jun 2008 21:43:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote: > >> Mike Dobony <sword(a)notasarian-host.net> wrote: >>> >>>I basically agree, but you can't fix clipping. Compression on the FOH >>>would be limited to mainly keep from clipping. If I need to leave to help >>>out somewhere else and someone decides to play I don't want to clip either >>>FOH or the recording. Basically, I'm not sure I don't need it. >> >> A compressor cannot fix clipping. If your levels are high enough, you >> can clip the input of the compressor just as easily as the input of the >> converters. Just turn it down low enough that the PA guy's console >> clips before your recorder does. That won't fix it either, but at least >> it won't be _your_ fault. > >What about the more likely problem, extreme dynamic range? When I speak in >similar situations I go from a normal speaking voice to yelling (my topic >is personal safety). Wouldn't a soft knee be a good idea in such cases? >This is my primary concern. Clipping the speakers is second. I will be >the console operator, but as the troubleshooter also I may have to leave at >times. I have no idea what the speakers will do, I never heard them >before. Of course, for the soft knee a compressor in the mic signal path >would be ideal, but that is later down the road. In the digital world, you have an outrageous amount of dynamic range available at the recorder. So you can compress things afterward, once you get the recording made. This gives you a chance to fiddle around with settings to avoid audible artifacts like the background noise pumping and exaggerated P-popping. The noise floor on the recording is limited by the mike preamps more than anything else, so doing the compression before the recorder or after the recorder gives you the same results. So you can turn the level way down so that yelling doesn't clip anything, and bring the rest up in post, without the noise floor a huge issue. It's sure a better world than when folks were using those Marantz cassette decks for this kind of work, and living with the AGC pumping up and down throughout the whole thing. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: Mike Dobony on 17 Jun 2008 12:29 On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:43:55 +0200, Chris Whealy wrote: > Mike Dobony wrote: >> I basically agree, but you can't fix clipping. Compression on the FOH >> would be limited to mainly keep from clipping. If I need to leave to help >> out somewhere else and someone decides to play I don't want to clip either >> FOH or the recording. Basically, I'm not sure I don't need it. >> > If your mic input is clipping, then your gain structure is wrong. > You'll need to adjust the mic's input level so that the loudest sound > you can produce does not result in any clipping at the input stage. If > this then results in your normal speaking voice being too quiet, then > use the output gain of the compressor to boost the level. > Okay, you have unknown speakers on at present unknown subjects with unknown speaking characteristics. How do you set for the loudest and still have good recording without knowing the characteristics of the speaker? I want normal recording at 0 and moderate emphasis at 10-15. Soft knee at about 15 to moderate any aggressive speaking. > How you adjust your compressor is determined by how much control you > want to exert over the dynamic range of that channel. If you require > alot of dynamic range for effect, then use a lower compression ratio; > however, I can't judge this for you. > Yup, that is what I was thinking, soft knee just to keep things in control. > Chris W
From: Mike Dobony on 17 Jun 2008 12:31
On 17 Jun 2008 10:39:22 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote: > Mike Dobony <sword(a)notasarian-host.net> wrote: >>On 16 Jun 2008 21:43:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote: >> >>> Mike Dobony <sword(a)notasarian-host.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>I basically agree, but you can't fix clipping. Compression on the FOH >>>>would be limited to mainly keep from clipping. If I need to leave to help >>>>out somewhere else and someone decides to play I don't want to clip either >>>>FOH or the recording. Basically, I'm not sure I don't need it. >>> >>> A compressor cannot fix clipping. If your levels are high enough, you >>> can clip the input of the compressor just as easily as the input of the >>> converters. Just turn it down low enough that the PA guy's console >>> clips before your recorder does. That won't fix it either, but at least >>> it won't be _your_ fault. >> >>What about the more likely problem, extreme dynamic range? When I speak in >>similar situations I go from a normal speaking voice to yelling (my topic >>is personal safety). Wouldn't a soft knee be a good idea in such cases? >>This is my primary concern. Clipping the speakers is second. I will be >>the console operator, but as the troubleshooter also I may have to leave at >>times. I have no idea what the speakers will do, I never heard them >>before. Of course, for the soft knee a compressor in the mic signal path >>would be ideal, but that is later down the road. > > In the digital world, you have an outrageous amount of dynamic range > available at the recorder. So you can compress things afterward, once > you get the recording made. This gives you a chance to fiddle around > with settings to avoid audible artifacts like the background noise pumping > and exaggerated P-popping. The noise floor on the recording is limited > by the mike preamps more than anything else, so doing the compression > before the recorder or after the recorder gives you the same results. > CD's are going directly from recorder to duplicator. There will be no editing. Recordings on Friday. CD's available on Friday night and Saturday morning. Right now we have over 300 people registered for the conference and expect that many to sign up at the door. There are going to be about 8-10 separate recordings available. I don't know that we have anybody available to even edit if we wanted to. I have other duties before and after the breakout sessions. > So you can turn the level way down so that yelling doesn't clip anything, > and bring the rest up in post, without the noise floor a huge issue. > And then the normal parts are too soft. > It's sure a better world than when folks were using those Marantz cassette > decks for this kind of work, and living with the AGC pumping up and down > throughout the whole thing. True, IF you have the time available to adjust afterwards. We don't. Mike D. |