Atmel PLD programming help
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From: FyberOptic on 29 Jan 2010 21:08 Hi folks, I'm in need of some info from someone who knows a lot more about this stuff than me! In a nutshell, I've never used programmable logic before, but I really want to get into it. I think it would make my life so much easier, because standard glue logic means so many wires, board space, and potential problems. The problem though is the commercial programmers, and how much they tend to cost. I simply can't afford it on my budget as a hobbyist. I did however managed to get my hands on an ATF22V10BQL, which is the Atmel flash-based equivalent to a 22V10 GAL if I understand properly. What I want to know is, how exactly do I program the thing? Atmel seems to offer no information on how this process is done. I've heard that normal GALs require high voltages to erase and program, but this one being flash-based I would assume that none of that is necessary? I heard about something called GALblast, but then I also heard that it won't work with ATF chips? So I'm at a standstill on trying to find anything out. Basically, what I'm looking for is a way to do this from my parallel port. Heck, if I just knew HOW to program them, I would consider designing my own programmer if necessary, if there are no other free schematics available out there. I would really appreciate any info anyone could give. I'd also appreciate suggestions on other DIP-style programmable logic chips that I might should look into that have easy programmability. Thanks in advance!
From: MooseFET on 29 Jan 2010 22:30 On Jan 29, 6:08 pm, FyberOptic <fyberop...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi folks, I'm in need of some info from someone who knows a lot more > about this stuff than me! > > In a nutshell, I've never used programmable logic before, but I really > want to get into it. I think it would make my life so much easier, > because standard glue logic means so many wires, board space, and > potential problems. The problem though is the commercial programmers, > and how much they tend to cost. I simply can't afford it on my budget > as a hobbyist. > > I did however managed to get my hands on an ATF22V10BQL, which is the > Atmel flash-based equivalent to a 22V10 GAL if I understand properly. > What I want to know is, how exactly do I program the thing? Atmel > seems to offer no information on how this process is done. I've heard > that normal GALs require high voltages to erase and program, but this > one being flash-based I would assume that none of that is necessary? > I heard about something called GALblast, but then I also heard that it > won't work with ATF chips? So I'm at a standstill on trying to find > anything out. Do you mean (A) convert human readable stuff into bits or (2) put the bits into the PAL? The second part, I believe you can buy from digikey. The part (A) needs something like PALASM or CUPL > > Basically, what I'm looking for is a way to do this from my parallel > port. Heck, if I just knew HOW to program them, I would consider > designing my own programmer if necessary, if there are no other free > schematics available out there. > > I would really appreciate any info anyone could give. I'd also > appreciate suggestions on other DIP-style programmable logic chips > that I might should look into that have easy programmability. Thanks > in advance!
From: mike on 29 Jan 2010 22:51 FyberOptic wrote: > Hi folks, I'm in need of some info from someone who knows a lot more > about this stuff than me! > > In a nutshell, I've never used programmable logic before, but I really > want to get into it. I think it would make my life so much easier, > because standard glue logic means so many wires, board space, and > potential problems. The problem though is the commercial programmers, > and how much they tend to cost. I simply can't afford it on my budget > as a hobbyist. > > I did however managed to get my hands on an ATF22V10BQL, which is the > Atmel flash-based equivalent to a 22V10 GAL if I understand properly. > What I want to know is, how exactly do I program the thing? Atmel > seems to offer no information on how this process is done. I've heard > that normal GALs require high voltages to erase and program, but this > one being flash-based I would assume that none of that is necessary? > I heard about something called GALblast, but then I also heard that it > won't work with ATF chips? So I'm at a standstill on trying to find > anything out. > > Basically, what I'm looking for is a way to do this from my parallel > port. Heck, if I just knew HOW to program them, I would consider > designing my own programmer if necessary, if there are no other free > schematics available out there. > > I would really appreciate any info anyone could give. I'd also > appreciate suggestions on other DIP-style programmable logic chips > that I might should look into that have easy programmability. Thanks > in advance! > OLD GAL programmer http://www.edaboard.com/ftopic130202.html Page with links to lotsa programmers. http://ic-prog.software.informer.com/ Bottom line is that programming algorithms have been secret for two decades. Last time I saw anything interesting for GAL's was the 1990 National PLD databook and design guide. IF you find anything relative to the newer devices, post your results.
From: Rich Webb on 30 Jan 2010 11:09 On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:08:11 -0800 (PST), FyberOptic <fyberoptic(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Hi folks, I'm in need of some info from someone who knows a lot more >about this stuff than me! > >In a nutshell, I've never used programmable logic before, but I really >want to get into it. I think it would make my life so much easier, >because standard glue logic means so many wires, board space, and >potential problems. The problem though is the commercial programmers, >and how much they tend to cost. I simply can't afford it on my budget >as a hobbyist. You might be able to score an old device programmer from eBay or such. Back in the day, the programming algorithms were often released only under NDAs. AFAIK, that included the Atmel GAL algorithms. Most of today's devices use JTAG or some other form of serial programming, often (but not always) able to program the device while it's installed in the system. The Atmel GALs were intended to be programmed and then installed; they are not setup for in-system programming. >I did however managed to get my hands on an ATF22V10BQL, which is the >Atmel flash-based equivalent to a 22V10 GAL if I understand properly. >What I want to know is, how exactly do I program the thing? Atmel >seems to offer no information on how this process is done. I've heard >that normal GALs require high voltages to erase and program, but this >one being flash-based I would assume that none of that is necessary? >I heard about something called GALblast, but then I also heard that it >won't work with ATF chips? So I'm at a standstill on trying to find >anything out. > >Basically, what I'm looking for is a way to do this from my parallel >port. Heck, if I just knew HOW to program them, I would consider >designing my own programmer if necessary, if there are no other free >schematics available out there. I'd give the GALblast a try. My old'ish Needhams EMP11 does place 12 V on pin 2 for both reading and programming of an ATF22V10B. These are flash parts but from a rather early generation. Information on the GALblast, including software, schematic, and BOM are over at http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public/Pgmrs/GAL/algo.htm and the linked pages. >I would really appreciate any info anyone could give. I'd also >appreciate suggestions on other DIP-style programmable logic chips >that I might should look into that have easy programmability. Thanks >in advance! Not many out there. Start looking at CPLDs, which are pretty much an array of GALs with internal connects and that nowadays can be programmed with relatively inexpensive JTAG cables. Not DIP form factors, though. You can find adapter boards, e.g. <http://www.beldynsys.com/> or <http://www.logicalsys.com/> or <http://www.schmartboard.com/> to roll your own or go with a dev board like <http://digilent.us/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,798&Prod=CMOD> that's in a DIP form factor. -- Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
From: Andrew Holme on 30 Jan 2010 18:15
On Jan 29, 6:08 pm, FyberOptic <fyberop...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi folks, I'm in need of some info from someone who knows a lot more > about this stuff than me! > > In a nutshell, I've never used programmable logic before, but I really > want to get into it. I think it would make my life so much easier, > because standard glue logic means so many wires, board space, and > potential problems. The problem though is the commercial programmers, > and how much they tend to cost. I simply can't afford it on my budget > as a hobbyist. > > I did however managed to get my hands on an ATF22V10BQL, which is the > Atmel flash-based equivalent to a 22V10 GAL if I understand properly. > What I want to know is, how exactly do I program the thing? Atmel > seems to offer no information on how this process is done. I've heard > that normal GALs require high voltages to erase and program, but this > one being flash-based I would assume that none of that is necessary? > I heard about something called GALblast, but then I also heard that it > won't work with ATF chips? So I'm at a standstill on trying to find > anything out. > > Basically, what I'm looking for is a way to do this from my parallel > port. Heck, if I just knew HOW to program them, I would consider > designing my own programmer if necessary, if there are no other free > schematics available out there. > > I would really appreciate any info anyone could give. I'd also > appreciate suggestions on other DIP-style programmable logic chips > that I might should look into that have easy programmability. Thanks > in advance! I played with 16V8 and 22V10 PLDs a few years back. I used WinCUPL http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=2759 and an Xeltek SuperPro Z http://www.xeltek.com/product.php?productid=16225 Then I got into CPLDs. Then I got into FPGAs. So I went a step at a time. You could do the same, or you might be better off going straight to CPLDs. You can fit a lot more logic in a CPLD. And you can code in Verilog, which is a lot nicer than CUPL. |