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From: John Larkin on 23 Mar 2010 10:07
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:55:52 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
<dirk.bruere(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>On 23/03/2010 01:19, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:02:58 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
>> <dirk.bruere(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/03/2010 16:37, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:03:06 -0500, "amdx"<amdx(a)knology.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> prostate exams will be available when the government disallows your exam!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank god I had cancer last year!
>>>>>
>>>>> Heard on the Dennis Miller show.
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had a spike in my PSA test last year, so had the multi-round
>>>> follow-up. Turned out to be a false positive.
>>>>
>>>> The funny part though was the manual exam... sweet young oriental babe
>>>> says, "Drop your pants."
>>>>
>>>> I drop my pants and bend over. She says, "No. Let's do the front
>>>> first."
>>>>
>>>> Panic! Panic! Shrivel :-(
>>>>
>>>> But we _are_ going to be like the UK. Committee approval _will_ be
>>>> required for "procedures".
>>>>
>>>> They'll let us old folks die off.
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to scurry around and get everything fixed before this bill
>>>> kicks in.
>>>>
>>>> Then outlive them :-)
>>>>
>>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>>
>>> Yeah... it's so bad over here in the UK that we are only 22nd on the
>>> list of life expectancy. OTOH, the USA is at number 38. despite spending
>>> vastly more than us on medical stuff.
>>>
>>> Ever wondered whether you might be doing something wrong, compared with
>>> the UK?
>>>
>>> Canada is at 11. France at 10
>>
>> A big part of the difference is demographics. We have a lot of
>> immigrants who don't get good medical care. Certain populations,
>> Africans and Pacific islanders and native Americans for instance, seem
>> poorly adapted to European diets (lots of meat, wheat, sugar, dairy
>> products) and get diabetes, heart disease, cancer, high blood
>> pressure, and such. All that fried food and pizza and ice cream and
>> bread sure taste good.
>>
>> Euro-type Americans who have regular access to medical care do quite
>> well. And Americans who get heart attacks, cancer, acute stuff like
>> that, do very well by world standards.
>>
>> The US medical establishment also agressively fights for the lives of
>> babies born prematurely or with birth defects, and counts those as
>> deaths if they don't survive. It's very expensive, often hundreds of
>> thousands of dollars, to save a premature child. And if they do die,
>> we count them against life expectancy statistics. Many other countries
>> make no such effort and don't count these as deaths.
>
>So we would expect infant mortality to be considerably better than (say)
>the UK?

If we count and try to save more distressed babies, I'd expect that to
make our ratio worse. Many european countries don't even count the
ones we include as "born."

>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate
>
>USA is at number 33
>UK is at number 22
>
>Explanation?

Many. Utah's rate is better than the UK's; Mississippi is much worse.

John

From: JosephKK on 25 Mar 2010 23:17
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:26:18 -0500, "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms(a)charter.net> wrote:

>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
>news:tv4gq5tmn5mkkgtbrv1eaes8reamesv8v2(a)4ax.com...
>> The US medical establishment also agressively fights for the lives of
>> babies born prematurely or with birth defects, and counts those as
>> deaths if they don't survive. It's very expensive, often hundreds of
>> thousands of dollars, to save a premature child. And if they do die,
>> we count them against life expectancy statistics. Many other countries
>> make no such effort and don't count these as deaths.
>
>Incidentially, do you have any statistics supporting this oft-cited
>statistic? It sounds believable but I wonder how much of an impact it
>actually is.
>
>Tim

I think i saw something on it at the CDC site.
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E. on 26 Mar 2010 20:51
amdx wrote:
>
> prostate exams will be available when the government disallows your exam!

I think all prostate exams are done up the back alley, so to speak.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul(a)Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Child prodigy procrastinator.
From: krw on 26 Mar 2010 21:01
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:51:10 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul(a)Hovnanian.com>
wrote:

>amdx wrote:
>>
>> prostate exams will be available when the government disallows your exam!
>
>I think all prostate exams are done up the back alley, so to speak.

The Demonicrats should be really good at them by now.
From: dagmargoodboat on 26 Mar 2010 23:26
On Mar 23, 1:59 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 23/03/2010 04:42, dagmargoodb...(a)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 22, 8:19 pm, John Larkin
> > <jjlar...(a)highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com>  wrote:
> >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:02:58 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
>
> >> <dirk.bru...(a)gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>> On 22/03/2010 16:37, Jim Thompson wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:03:06 -0500, "amdx"<a...(a)knology.net>    wrote:
>
> >>>>> prostate exams will be available when the government disallows your exam!
>
> >>>>> Thank god I had cancer last year!
>
> >>>>>     Heard on the Dennis Miller show.
> >>>>>                        Mike
>
> >>>> I had a spike in my PSA test last year, so had the multi-round
> >>>> follow-up.  Turned out to be a false positive.
>
> >>>> The funny part though was the manual exam... sweet young oriental babe
> >>>> says, "Drop your pants."
>
> >>>> I drop my pants and bend over.  She says, "No.  Let's do the front
> >>>> first."
>
> >>>> Panic!  Panic!  Shrivel :-(
>
> >>>> But we _are_ going to be like the UK.  Committee approval _will_ be
> >>>> required for "procedures".
>
> >>>> They'll let us old folks die off.
>
> >>>> I'm going to scurry around and get everything fixed before this bill
> >>>> kicks in.
>
> >>>> Then outlive them :-)
>
> >>>>                                           ...Jim Thompson
>
> >>> Yeah... it's so bad over here in the UK that we are only 22nd on the
> >>> list of life expectancy. OTOH, the USA is at number 38. despite spending
> >>> vastly more than us on medical stuff.
>
> >>> Ever wondered whether you might be doing something wrong, compared with
> >>> the UK?
>
> >>> Canada is at 11. France at 10
>
> >> A big part of the difference is demographics. We have a lot of
> >> immigrants who don't get good medical care. Certain populations,
> >> Africans and Pacific islanders and native Americans for instance, seem
> >> poorly adapted to European diets (lots of meat, wheat, sugar, dairy
> >> products) and get diabetes, heart disease, cancer, high blood
> >> pressure, and such. All that fried food and pizza and ice cream and
> >> bread sure taste good.
>
> >> Euro-type Americans who have regular access to medical care do quite
> >> well. And Americans who get heart attacks, cancer, acute stuff like
> >> that, do very well by world standards.
>
> > Most of our mortality is fat-related, and we've got more fat people.
> > It has nothing to do with the quality or availability of medical care.
>
> > But, even with that, if you eliminate murders (gangs, killing one
> > another, mostly) and car accidents (Americans can afford more cars,
> > and to drive them more), Americans outlive Europeans.
>
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > James Arthur
>
> Life expectancy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
>
> USA number 38
> UK number 22
>
> Nope - still doesn't add up.
> Most (West) Europeans live longer.

Your question contains a number of wrong assumptions.

Hint: Tabulate what people die of (causes), the affect of each death
on life expectancy, then prove that those deaths were the result of
inferior health care.

If you do, you'll find our shorter life expectancy comes from 1)
murders, 2) accidents, 3) differences in infant mortality reporting
(not deaths), 4) fat people.

If you're not in a gang, drive responsibly, and aren't fat, you live
longer in America.

Data available in Health, US. I think I got it from the HHS.gov
website. Or you can read this, if you're lazy:
http://reason.com/archives/2008/06/17/accidents-murders-preemies-fat

--
Cheers,
James Arthur
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