Bad Clusters vs. Bad Sectors
in [Storage]
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From: Arno on 14 Oct 2009 09:47 Ant <ant(a)zimage.comant> wrote: > On 10/13/2009 6:41 AM PT, Arno typed: >>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later. >>>> Its completely useless now. >> >>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors. >> >> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than >> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its >> justification. Today it has none. > OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough > to find them. I believe so. I have done this repeatedly on several disks with problems and the results were basically the same. One critial difference between now and the time when SpinRiste made sense is that modern disks read the signal in analog form while old disks did immerdiately convert the signal to 1/0. Analog reads allow a much better signal quality assessment, and hence assesment of the margin between the signal read and one that would result in a non-recoverable sector. This way marginal sectors can be flagged as bad before there are actual read errors. Hostorically, this required the tricks SpinRite did, but not anymore. Arno
From: Ant on 18 Oct 2009 16:51 On 10/13/2009 10:29 PM PT, Ant typed: >>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later. >>>> Its completely useless now. >>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors. >> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than >> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its >> justification. Today it has none. > OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough > to find them. I was reading SpinRite's FAQ (http://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htm) and Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite): "Does SpinRite support hard drive SMART capability? Yes. SpinRite supports SMART more completely and usefully than anything else ever has. Upon first use, SpinRite activates and enables a drive's disabled SMART subsystem. When SpinRite is not actively running on the drive, the "static" state of the drive's SMART data is displayed. When SpinRite is running on a drive, the drive's SMART data � both the standard SMART parameters and the more detailed SMART event counters � are continuously polled, monitored, and displayed. Much more useful information about the true health and robustness of a drive can be gained by monitoring the SMART system's feedback while the drive is under an actual workload. No other software has ever done this. Note: Some default SATA configurations can limit SpinRite's ability to obtain SMART information from SATA drives even though all other data recovery operations will work without limitation. See the SATA knowledgebase article for specific information about SpinRite v6.0's operation with SATA drives and controllers." "... Version 6 is rather different from previous versions. It offers full access to the entire disk surface regardless of partitioning, Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology (SMART) parameters and control of partial scanning within a specified percentage range..." It sounds SpinRite v6 is still useful. Am I missing something? -- "The constant creeping of ants will wear away the stone." --unknown /\___/\ / /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: philpi(a)earthlink.netANT ( ) or ANTant(a)zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
From: Rod Speed on 18 Oct 2009 17:36 Ant wrote > Ant wrote >>>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later. >>>>> Its completely useless now. >>>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors. >>> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than >>> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its >>> justification. Today it has none. >> OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough to find them. > I was reading SpinRite's FAQ (http://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htm) and Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite): > "Does SpinRite support hard drive SMART capability? Yes. SpinRite supports SMART more completely and usefully than > anything else ever has. Another bare faced lie. > Upon first use, SpinRite activates and enables a drive's disabled SMART subsystem. When SpinRite is not actively > running on the drive, the "static" state of the drive's SMART data is displayed. > When SpinRite is running on a drive, the drive's SMART data � both > the standard SMART parameters and the more detailed SMART event > counters � are continuously polled, monitored, and displayed. > Much more useful information about the true health and robustness of a drive can be gained by monitoring the SMART > system's feedback while the drive is under an actual workload. No other software has ever done this. Another bare faced lie. And it doesnt change enough to matter anyway. > Note: Some default SATA configurations can limit SpinRite's ability to obtain SMART information from SATA drives even > though all other data recovery operations will work without limitation. See the SATA > knowledgebase article for specific information about SpinRite v6.0's > operation with SATA drives and controllers." > "... Version 6 is rather different from previous versions. It offers full access to the entire disk surface regardless > of partitioning, So does any SMART tool, fool. > Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology (SMART) parameters > and control of partial scanning within a specified percentage range..." Meaningless waffle. > It sounds SpinRite v6 is still useful. Nope. > Am I missing something? Yep, that its not doing anything that any SMART tool isnt doing.
From: Arno on 18 Oct 2009 19:04 Ant <ant(a)zimage.comant> wrote: > On 10/13/2009 10:29 PM PT, Ant typed: >>>>>> Hmm, maybe I should run SpinRite v5 on that HDD later. >>>>> Its completely useless now. >>>> Really? How so? I remember using it in the past and finding bad sectors. >>> SpinRite does find bad sectors, but not more or others than >>> a long SMART selftest. Before disk selftests SpinRite had its >>> justification. Today it has none. >> OK, I have used smartctl's long tests before. I assume that was enough >> to find them. > I was reading SpinRite's FAQ (http://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htm) and > Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite): > "Does SpinRite support hard drive SMART capability? Yes. SpinRite > supports SMART more completely and usefully than anything else ever has. A direct lie. > Upon first use, SpinRite activates and enables a drive's disabled SMART > subsystem. Yes, I do that manually. HDDsentinel does it. Linux smartd does it. Speedfan does it. Other tools do it too. > When SpinRite is not actively running on the drive, the > "static" state of the drive's SMART data is displayed. When SpinRite is > running on a drive, the drive's SMART data ? both the standard SMART > parameters and the more detailed SMART event counters ? are continuously > polled, monitored, and displayed. So what? Nobody neds that. It is far better to have change-monitoring for the critical attributes than to manually have to look at a continuously updated display. If you really want it, many tools allow you to do this. > Much more useful information about the > true health and robustness of a drive can be gained by monitoring the > SMART system's feedback while the drive is under an actual workload. No > other software has ever done this. Another direct lie. > Note: Some default SATA configurations can limit SpinRite's ability to > obtain SMART information from SATA drives even though all other data > recovery operations will work without limitation. See the SATA > knowledgebase article for specific information about SpinRite v6.0's > operation with SATA drives and controllers." > "... Version 6 is rather different from previous versions. It offers > full access to the entire disk surface regardless of partitioning, > Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology (SMART) parameters > and control of partial scanning within a specified percentage range..." > It sounds SpinRite v6 is still useful. Am I missing something? Yes. These people have abandoned all atempts at honesty. I do not say their tool is useless, but it is not better than the alternatives. Incidentially several other tools will run regular surface scans, and they are critical for early problem detection. Arno
From: Yousuf Khan on 19 Oct 2009 00:17
Ant wrote: > It sounds SpinRite v6 is still useful. Am I missing something? A lot of SpinRite's claims are simply marketing. That's all you're missing. Yousuf Khan |