Bad Omen?
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From: Joerg on 30 Jul 2010 12:08 Sergey Kubushyn wrote: [Digikey] > > They used to have that database of the products they carry for OrCAD (I > don't know if they still have something like this) but it was absolutely > useless for me because I do not use OrCAD and even if I did it didn't have > anything but their part no. and price -- no schematic symbols, no > footprints, nothing. > Farnell supposedly wants to integrate theirs with Eagle. They took a pretty bold step in that direction in that they just bought the whole company (Cadsoft). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Rich Grise on Google groups on 30 Jul 2010 15:05 On Jul 27, 6:39 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Tim Williams wrote: > > I was looking up a part on Mouser. In the People Also Bought > > section, I saw exclusively parts from my project list. > > > It seems like no one else buys these, which is probably a bad sign... > > Oh, forgot one thing that might cause it: Do you have a river near where > you live? Take some good binoculars and check whether a submarine > periscope and some antennas are sticking out the water, with a Chinese > flag on there, looking at your house :-) > > Or maybe a van with Russian license plates that had never parked at your > street before ... > Or even a black SUV with tinted windows, or a bread truck with a license plate that says "exempt". ;-) Cheers! Rich
From: Sergey Kubushyn on 30 Jul 2010 16:37 Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>>>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>>> Just one example--I recently tried to buy several thousands of >>>>>>>>>> BC550/60C transistors. The funny thing was Avnet had BC560CTA @ $0.0163 >>>>>>>>>> each but no BC550C at all. I bought 2 ammopacks of 2,000 for $65 from them >>>>>>>>>> (that was all they had in stock.) On the other hand Arrow only had (and >>>>>>>>>> still have) BC550CTA at the same price but no BC560C at all. That was a >>>>>>>>>> couple of days ago. Now Avnet has 32K of BC550CTA in stock. If you were >>>>>>>>>> shopping at Avnet only a week ago you would've said that BC550C are >>>>>>>>>> unobtanium because they do not have them in stock while both findchips and >>>>>>>>>> octopart kept telling Arrow has plenty in stock. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just what I said all along, should have gone to Digikey, they have >>>>>>>>> oodles of them: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC550CGOS-ND >>>>>>>> If you want to pay 3x the price, sure. And 7,055 pcs is not "oodles." And >>>>>>>> even those are just remnants, the other BC550Cxx are non-stocked. And this >>>>>>>> only one will also go non-stocked when they are bought. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And they are exactly at the same point with BC560C. 4,000 left in stock at >>>>>>>> 2x price and a big fat warning they will go non-stocked once that inventory >>>>>>>> is sold. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sergey, let's face it, nearly all thru-hole stuff is going to head for >>>>>>> lalaland. Ok, we were really early adopters over in Europe back then, >>>>>>> but since the start of my industrial career in 1986 I can't remember any >>>>>>> thru-hole board I have designed. And I've designed tons of boards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There will always be mfgs for thru-hole, just like Sovtek and Svetlana >>>>>>> do for tubes, but it's going to be boutique-ware. >>>>>> That is what I'm using them for. Not with tubes but for audio. >>>>>> >>>>>> The rumours about their death are grossly exagerrated. Fairchild makes those >>>>>> full steam and they are dirt cheap. Toshiba is back with their 2SK170 and >>>>>> 2SK369 parts that were discontinued long ago. And those parts are TO-92. >>>>>> BTW, Fairchild picked up a lot of Japanese transistors and now there is >>>>>> plenty of 2SA/SB/SC parts in their lineup. >>>>>> >>>>>> Definitely I could replace BC550/BC560 with SOT-23 BC850/BC860 but it >>>>>> doesn't make any sence because rest of the part is all big thruhole ones. >>>>>> Nobody makes SMD polystyrene capacitors, less for high-tolerance ones. There >>>>>> is no replacement for low-noise RN55/60 resistors (at least cheap one) for >>>>>> sub-millivolt audio circuits. I would love to make SMD version but there is >>>>>> no parts for that... >>>>>> >>>>> They won't go totally belly up by the only places I know that do >>>>> thru-hole mass production are all in China now. So some day you may have >>>>> to buy parts from Asia. >>>> Nah, I don't do mass-production of those. There is no _THAT_ many people who >>>> want to purchase a high-quality (not audiofool HiEnd one with inferior >>>> parameters but enormous price tag) phono corrector :) My program is a couple >>>> of thousands. And it is not just because of low demand but also because of >>>> component availability. I'm using Russian Military Surplus/Spare Parts >>>> Repository polystyrene capacitors, K71-1 with 0.5% tolerance and that is >>>> limited and finite supply. Once they gone they gone forever. >>>> >>>> That product is hand-assembled so I don't care who does mass production :) >>>> >>>>> If your needs are audio check out the BCX70k. Nice low 1/f corner. >>>> Thanks, but they are not any better than BC850/860. Roughly the same specs. >>>> >>>> BTW, I'd better go purchase a couple of reels of BC850C and BC860C while >>>> they are available (from Mouser :)) before they gone... >>>> >>>> It is not BJTs that are so rare, it is JFETs... I would've been extremely >>>> happy if 2SK369 existed in SOT-23... There is another problem though--I need >>>> matched pairs of those :( Not something that can be done with Pick-and-Place >>>> machine... >>>> >>>> There are Linear systems LSK389 but they are single source and not very >>>> reliable one... One should be out of his mind to design something with such >>>> a Maximese part... >>>> >>> The only dual FETs I am aware of (I mean that are left) are RF >>> transistors. But it's MOSFETs. And even then you often down know how >>> they track because most are multi-chip, meaning just two devices in one >>> package, hoping that they come from the same area on the same wafer. >>> Even then tracking won't be good. >> >> There is LSK389 dual monolythic JFET from Linear Systems that is supposed to >> be a copy of Toshiba 2SK389 but they are not widely available. It is kinda >> boutique part. And they did not copy the 2SK389 p-channel twin, 2SJ109 :( >> >> So for the current production (since not so long ago) the only ones are >> single 2SK170/2SJ74 from Toshiba. They are TO-92 only... The better >> n-channel one, 2SK369 (it has twice the Yfs of 2SK170) unfortunately is not >> accompanied with a p-channel complement :( >> > > You audio guys always want complement and stuff. "Yes, the appetizer was > good. But the caviar was not Beluga." Sure, who wants a fake caviar? :) 2SK170/2SJ74 are OK if they are available. They do manufacture them but they are not easy to get. There is a lot of offers from China but I'm almost sure they are all fakes. I bought the entire 2SK170 stock Mouser had and I hope those are genuine Toshiba parts. They are not in stock any more but they are taking backorders so they are available somehow. Unfortunately no one carries the companion p-channel one, 2SJ74 in the US as of now :( I do hope they will follow 2SK170 that nobody stocked here. There is another deficiency -- they only carry "GR" parts so if one needs them from higher Idss groups (BL, V) he's out of luck for now. But anyways, this is a good start and I do really hope the rest of those will follow. And BTW, 2SK369 is a wonderful JFET :) >>>> As for the capacitors, Panasonic makes SMD polyphenylensulfide (hope I >>>> spelled it right) ones that are supposedly on par with polypropylens but I >>>> didn't try them yet. And the tolerance issue remains--they are 5%... >>>> >>> I've had that issue with 2x45 degree phase shifters in late 80s when >>> helping another team. Had told them not to use direct conversion but ... >>> >>> Anyhow, we paid through the nose for 0.5% film caps. >> >> For quality audio one should only use polystyrene or at least polypropylene >> capacitors so it is not just _film_ ones :) Russian surplus is not all that >> expensive but it is not easy to get and the supply is finite; they don't >> make them any more :( I'm paying something like $0.2-$0.35 when buying in >> bulk through my russian buddies close to those military warehouses. >> > > Well, that just the trick, Russian buddies :-) Yep :) It is actually very interesting time right now (in its final days)--their military had at least a couple of spares per each and every part installed in their military equipment and now that equipment is going obsolete so they sell almost all their inventory of NOS parts. There is plenty of subminiature vacuum tubes (my another favorite :)) available for pennies on the dollar so I bought everything I could reach. The same is true with those high-tolerance polystyrene-foil capacitors and some of other useful ex-military stuff. They didn't make any decent consumer products but military electronics was top notch. It was extremely expensive back at their glory time and almost impossible to get but now it is on sale. Unfortunately it is the final sale and when they gone they gone forever. Nobody makes anything like that and not going to. They are now in the same cheap chinese crapboat we all are. > Back in the late 80s I had the minor Problem that the iron curtain > hadn't fallen yet. Reagan asked Gorbachev a few times to knock it down > but Gorbachev wasn't quite ready to get the sledgehammer out of the > basement. An aggravating factor was that my knowledge of the Russian > language consisted of the word na'sdarovje :-) > > So we had to live with whatever material we could get. And that sure > wasn't much to write home about. They don't have anything worth writing home about any more... Back then at their socialistic heydays nobody even thought about military components price. The quality was paramount, each and every part was individually tested, and QA guys could easily fail the entire lot if they didn't like e.g. the paint color. There was no business relations between military and industry, everything was paid for by the government. That's why nobody cut corners trying to save on something. If it was told to be all gold, it was all gold. --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
From: Sergey Kubushyn on 30 Jul 2010 16:39 John Larkin <jjlarkin(a)highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:28:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >>Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>>>>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>>>> Just one example--I recently tried to buy several thousands of >>>>>>>>>>> BC550/60C transistors. The funny thing was Avnet had BC560CTA @ $0.0163 >>>>>>>>>>> each but no BC550C at all. I bought 2 ammopacks of 2,000 for $65 from them >>>>>>>>>>> (that was all they had in stock.) On the other hand Arrow only had (and >>>>>>>>>>> still have) BC550CTA at the same price but no BC560C at all. That was a >>>>>>>>>>> couple of days ago. Now Avnet has 32K of BC550CTA in stock. If you were >>>>>>>>>>> shopping at Avnet only a week ago you would've said that BC550C are >>>>>>>>>>> unobtanium because they do not have them in stock while both findchips and >>>>>>>>>>> octopart kept telling Arrow has plenty in stock. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just what I said all along, should have gone to Digikey, they have >>>>>>>>>> oodles of them: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC550CGOS-ND >>>>>>>>> If you want to pay 3x the price, sure. And 7,055 pcs is not "oodles." And >>>>>>>>> even those are just remnants, the other BC550Cxx are non-stocked. And this >>>>>>>>> only one will also go non-stocked when they are bought. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And they are exactly at the same point with BC560C. 4,000 left in stock at >>>>>>>>> 2x price and a big fat warning they will go non-stocked once that inventory >>>>>>>>> is sold. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sergey, let's face it, nearly all thru-hole stuff is going to head for >>>>>>>> lalaland. Ok, we were really early adopters over in Europe back then, >>>>>>>> but since the start of my industrial career in 1986 I can't remember any >>>>>>>> thru-hole board I have designed. And I've designed tons of boards. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There will always be mfgs for thru-hole, just like Sovtek and Svetlana >>>>>>>> do for tubes, but it's going to be boutique-ware. >>>>>>> That is what I'm using them for. Not with tubes but for audio. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The rumours about their death are grossly exagerrated. Fairchild makes those >>>>>>> full steam and they are dirt cheap. Toshiba is back with their 2SK170 and >>>>>>> 2SK369 parts that were discontinued long ago. And those parts are TO-92. >>>>>>> BTW, Fairchild picked up a lot of Japanese transistors and now there is >>>>>>> plenty of 2SA/SB/SC parts in their lineup. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Definitely I could replace BC550/BC560 with SOT-23 BC850/BC860 but it >>>>>>> doesn't make any sence because rest of the part is all big thruhole ones. >>>>>>> Nobody makes SMD polystyrene capacitors, less for high-tolerance ones. There >>>>>>> is no replacement for low-noise RN55/60 resistors (at least cheap one) for >>>>>>> sub-millivolt audio circuits. I would love to make SMD version but there is >>>>>>> no parts for that... >>>>>>> >>>>>> They won't go totally belly up by the only places I know that do >>>>>> thru-hole mass production are all in China now. So some day you may have >>>>>> to buy parts from Asia. >>>>> Nah, I don't do mass-production of those. There is no _THAT_ many people who >>>>> want to purchase a high-quality (not audiofool HiEnd one with inferior >>>>> parameters but enormous price tag) phono corrector :) My program is a couple >>>>> of thousands. And it is not just because of low demand but also because of >>>>> component availability. I'm using Russian Military Surplus/Spare Parts >>>>> Repository polystyrene capacitors, K71-1 with 0.5% tolerance and that is >>>>> limited and finite supply. Once they gone they gone forever. >>>>> >>>>> That product is hand-assembled so I don't care who does mass production :) >>>>> >>>>>> If your needs are audio check out the BCX70k. Nice low 1/f corner. >>>>> Thanks, but they are not any better than BC850/860. Roughly the same specs. >>>>> >>>>> BTW, I'd better go purchase a couple of reels of BC850C and BC860C while >>>>> they are available (from Mouser :)) before they gone... >>>>> >>>>> It is not BJTs that are so rare, it is JFETs... I would've been extremely >>>>> happy if 2SK369 existed in SOT-23... There is another problem though--I need >>>>> matched pairs of those :( Not something that can be done with Pick-and-Place >>>>> machine... >>>>> >>>>> There are Linear systems LSK389 but they are single source and not very >>>>> reliable one... One should be out of his mind to design something with such >>>>> a Maximese part... >>>>> >>>> The only dual FETs I am aware of (I mean that are left) are RF >>>> transistors. But it's MOSFETs. And even then you often down know how >>>> they track because most are multi-chip, meaning just two devices in one >>>> package, hoping that they come from the same area on the same wafer. >>>> Even then tracking won't be good. >>> >>> There is LSK389 dual monolythic JFET from Linear Systems that is supposed to >>> be a copy of Toshiba 2SK389 but they are not widely available. It is kinda >>> boutique part. And they did not copy the 2SK389 p-channel twin, 2SJ109 :( >>> >>> So for the current production (since not so long ago) the only ones are >>> single 2SK170/2SJ74 from Toshiba. They are TO-92 only... The better >>> n-channel one, 2SK369 (it has twice the Yfs of 2SK170) unfortunately is not >>> accompanied with a p-channel complement :( >>> >> >>You audio guys always want complement and stuff. "Yes, the appetizer was >>good. But the caviar was not Beluga." >> >> >>>>> As for the capacitors, Panasonic makes SMD polyphenylensulfide (hope I >>>>> spelled it right) ones that are supposedly on par with polypropylens but I >>>>> didn't try them yet. And the tolerance issue remains--they are 5%... >>>>> >>>> I've had that issue with 2x45 degree phase shifters in late 80s when >>>> helping another team. Had told them not to use direct conversion but ... >>>> >>>> Anyhow, we paid through the nose for 0.5% film caps. >>> >>> For quality audio one should only use polystyrene or at least polypropylene >>> capacitors so it is not just _film_ ones :) Russian surplus is not all that >>> expensive but it is not easy to get and the supply is finite; they don't >>> make them any more :( I'm paying something like $0.2-$0.35 when buying in >>> bulk through my russian buddies close to those military warehouses. >>> >> >>Well, that just the trick, Russian buddies :-) >> >>Back in the late 80s I had the minor Problem that the iron curtain >>hadn't fallen yet. Reagan asked Gorbachev a few times to knock it down >>but Gorbachev wasn't quite ready to get the sledgehammer out of the >>basement. An aggravating factor was that my knowledge of the Russian >>language consisted of the word na'sdarovje :-) >> >>So we had to live with whatever material we could get. And that sure >>wasn't much to write home about. > > I spent six weeks working in Moscow, in the Breshnev days. I learned > four words > > spa-seeba thank you > > dos-ve-don-ya bye > > milinki tiny (as in "tiny capitalist) > > klooch tool of some/any sort > > It was interesting. Hey, you speak fluent Russian! :) "klyuch" BTW has 2 different meanings -- it is either a wrench or a key... --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
From: Sergey Kubushyn on 30 Jul 2010 16:40
Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > John Larkin wrote: >> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:28:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > > [...] > >>>>> Anyhow, we paid through the nose for 0.5% film caps. >>>> For quality audio one should only use polystyrene or at least polypropylene >>>> capacitors so it is not just _film_ ones :) Russian surplus is not all that >>>> expensive but it is not easy to get and the supply is finite; they don't >>>> make them any more :( I'm paying something like $0.2-$0.35 when buying in >>>> bulk through my russian buddies close to those military warehouses. >>>> >>> Well, that just the trick, Russian buddies :-) >>> >>> Back in the late 80s I had the minor Problem that the iron curtain >>> hadn't fallen yet. Reagan asked Gorbachev a few times to knock it down >>> but Gorbachev wasn't quite ready to get the sledgehammer out of the >>> basement. An aggravating factor was that my knowledge of the Russian >>> language consisted of the word na'sdarovje :-) >>> >>> So we had to live with whatever material we could get. And that sure >>> wasn't much to write home about. >> >> I spent six weeks working in Moscow, in the Breshnev days. I learned >> four words >> >> spa-seeba thank you >> >> dos-ve-don-ya bye >> >> milinki tiny (as in "tiny capitalist) >> >> klooch tool of some/any sort >> > > Does the last one sound like "kludge"? > > Most of the Russian we heard in Germany was from returning POWs. Stuff > like "dawai" (quick, let's get moving here!), "raboti" (work), > "Rasberaitje pa piat" (line up in rows of five). Some of it made it into > the language just like "cool" did, or "angst" over here. > > >> It was interesting. >> > > According to Russian engineers I've worked with it is a country with a > very deep cultural history, not just the well-known stuff such as the > Bolshoi theatre or the choirs. Unfortunately now very messed up by > organized crime and politicians, at least that's what they told me. If > you want to design stuff or start a business with any chance of an ROI > you have to leave :-( Yep, that is right. That's why I did :) --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ****************************************************************** |