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From: Sergey Kubushyn on 29 Jul 2010 19:45 Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: > > [...] >>> >>>> Just one example--I recently tried to buy several thousands of >>>> BC550/60C transistors. The funny thing was Avnet had BC560CTA @ $0.0163 >>>> each but no BC550C at all. I bought 2 ammopacks of 2,000 for $65 from them >>>> (that was all they had in stock.) On the other hand Arrow only had (and >>>> still have) BC550CTA at the same price but no BC560C at all. That was a >>>> couple of days ago. Now Avnet has 32K of BC550CTA in stock. If you were >>>> shopping at Avnet only a week ago you would've said that BC550C are >>>> unobtanium because they do not have them in stock while both findchips and >>>> octopart kept telling Arrow has plenty in stock. >>>> >>> Just what I said all along, should have gone to Digikey, they have >>> oodles of them: >>> >>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC550CGOS-ND >> >> If you want to pay 3x the price, sure. And 7,055 pcs is not "oodles." And >> even those are just remnants, the other BC550Cxx are non-stocked. And this >> only one will also go non-stocked when they are bought. >> >> And they are exactly at the same point with BC560C. 4,000 left in stock at >> 2x price and a big fat warning they will go non-stocked once that inventory >> is sold. >> > > Sergey, let's face it, nearly all thru-hole stuff is going to head for > lalaland. Ok, we were really early adopters over in Europe back then, > but since the start of my industrial career in 1986 I can't remember any > thru-hole board I have designed. And I've designed tons of boards. > > There will always be mfgs for thru-hole, just like Sovtek and Svetlana > do for tubes, but it's going to be boutique-ware. That is what I'm using them for. Not with tubes but for audio. The rumours about their death are grossly exagerrated. Fairchild makes those full steam and they are dirt cheap. Toshiba is back with their 2SK170 and 2SK369 parts that were discontinued long ago. And those parts are TO-92. BTW, Fairchild picked up a lot of Japanese transistors and now there is plenty of 2SA/SB/SC parts in their lineup. Definitely I could replace BC550/BC560 with SOT-23 BC850/BC860 but it doesn't make any sence because rest of the part is all big thruhole ones. Nobody makes SMD polystyrene capacitors, less for high-tolerance ones. There is no replacement for low-noise RN55/60 resistors (at least cheap one) for sub-millivolt audio circuits. I would love to make SMD version but there is no parts for that... --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
From: Sergey Kubushyn on 29 Jul 2010 19:50 Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:10:20 GMT, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi(a)koi8.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>>> Tim Williams <tmoranwms(a)charter.net> wrote: >>>>>>> "Martin Riddle" <martin_rid(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:i2ntnv$o1h$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>>> Maybe they don't like paying 3x the price for those parts? >>>>>>> I don't know about that, I've shopped around and it's no worse than a factor of 2, with most of them being on par or better. >>>>>> As a matter of fact Mouser is not _THAT_ bad. It is almost on par with >>>>>> Arrow/Avnet/etc. Sometimes even cheaper. And in most cases their markup is >>>>>> less than 100%. >>>>>> >>>>>> That is another twin, DigiKey, that has everything marked up to the ears. I >>>>>> never understood why people do purchase anything from them... >>>>>> >>>>> Because they have the only search engine that works. >>>> Do they? >>> Yes. >> >> Have you ever tried findchips/octopart? >> > > Have you tried the example I gave you this morning? So what? Findchips shows quite a bunch. And it is beyond my understanding why would one search for those... >>>> And another question -- even if they were so unique why would one start >>>> searching anything on DigiKey (or whatever be it Mouser/Allied/Arrow/etc?) >>> Because they give one a good idea what's really available and a "budgetary" >>> price (normal price ~= DigiKey * .6). I then specify production hardware, >>> generally, from Arrow or Avnet. Sometimes Future and a few others. >>> >>>> It is much wiser to start with something like findchips.com or Octopart that >>>> would search _MULTIPLE_ sites for you and then you could choose which one to >>>> use... Octopart even has a FireFox plugin that installs alongside with >>>> Google and friends. >>> Why? I'm not buying from them anyway. DigiKey availability tells me a lot. >> >> It tells absolutely nothing. Zero, nada, zilch. If DigiKey doesn't stock >> anything it absolutely doesn't mean it is not available from others. And the >> opposite is also true--if they have some obscure part in stock it doesn't >> mean somebody still manufacture that part and it is available from somewhere >> else. >> > > Not always, of course, but generally Digikey is a pretty good indicator. > > >> And one more thing--parts availability is constantly changing these days. >> Sometimes the entire quite sizable stock gets purchased buy somebody else >> literally from under your hands. Yesterday I put a box of polystyrene >> capacitors in my cart on Mouser and kept shopping for something like 10 >> minutes. When I returned to the cart to checkout they all gone; somebody >> bought their entire stock and now that particular part is on backorder. >> > > Get used to it, this will continue for at least a year I guess. In a > teleconference this morning I did what I do a lot these days, advised a > client to buy and stash parts for a new project even though we aren't > 100% sure we need all of them and the first lots aren't done until end > of this year. Everybody does that, has to. I know. I do have a lot of parts I'm not sure I would use in my inventory just because they are scarce and I used them once. > If it's any comfort the same happened to me. Had my basket almost done, > phone rang. I answered the phone. BIG mistake. A few minutes later I > returned to my order and ... "Hey, where's my inductors?" Yep, that happens a lot... --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
From: Joerg on 29 Jul 2010 20:14 Sergey Kubushyn wrote: > Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >> [...] >>>>> Just one example--I recently tried to buy several thousands of >>>>> BC550/60C transistors. The funny thing was Avnet had BC560CTA @ $0.0163 >>>>> each but no BC550C at all. I bought 2 ammopacks of 2,000 for $65 from them >>>>> (that was all they had in stock.) On the other hand Arrow only had (and >>>>> still have) BC550CTA at the same price but no BC560C at all. That was a >>>>> couple of days ago. Now Avnet has 32K of BC550CTA in stock. If you were >>>>> shopping at Avnet only a week ago you would've said that BC550C are >>>>> unobtanium because they do not have them in stock while both findchips and >>>>> octopart kept telling Arrow has plenty in stock. >>>>> >>>> Just what I said all along, should have gone to Digikey, they have >>>> oodles of them: >>>> >>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC550CGOS-ND >>> If you want to pay 3x the price, sure. And 7,055 pcs is not "oodles." And >>> even those are just remnants, the other BC550Cxx are non-stocked. And this >>> only one will also go non-stocked when they are bought. >>> >>> And they are exactly at the same point with BC560C. 4,000 left in stock at >>> 2x price and a big fat warning they will go non-stocked once that inventory >>> is sold. >>> >> Sergey, let's face it, nearly all thru-hole stuff is going to head for >> lalaland. Ok, we were really early adopters over in Europe back then, >> but since the start of my industrial career in 1986 I can't remember any >> thru-hole board I have designed. And I've designed tons of boards. >> >> There will always be mfgs for thru-hole, just like Sovtek and Svetlana >> do for tubes, but it's going to be boutique-ware. > > That is what I'm using them for. Not with tubes but for audio. > > The rumours about their death are grossly exagerrated. Fairchild makes those > full steam and they are dirt cheap. Toshiba is back with their 2SK170 and > 2SK369 parts that were discontinued long ago. And those parts are TO-92. > BTW, Fairchild picked up a lot of Japanese transistors and now there is > plenty of 2SA/SB/SC parts in their lineup. > > Definitely I could replace BC550/BC560 with SOT-23 BC850/BC860 but it > doesn't make any sence because rest of the part is all big thruhole ones. > Nobody makes SMD polystyrene capacitors, less for high-tolerance ones. There > is no replacement for low-noise RN55/60 resistors (at least cheap one) for > sub-millivolt audio circuits. I would love to make SMD version but there is > no parts for that... > They won't go totally belly up by the only places I know that do thru-hole mass production are all in China now. So some day you may have to buy parts from Asia. If your needs are audio check out the BCX70k. Nice low 1/f corner. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 29 Jul 2010 20:16 Sergey Kubushyn wrote: > Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>> krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:10:20 GMT, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi(a)koi8.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>>>>> Tim Williams <tmoranwms(a)charter.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> "Martin Riddle" <martin_rid(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:i2ntnv$o1h$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>>>> Maybe they don't like paying 3x the price for those parts? >>>>>>>> I don't know about that, I've shopped around and it's no worse than a factor of 2, with most of them being on par or better. >>>>>>> As a matter of fact Mouser is not _THAT_ bad. It is almost on par with >>>>>>> Arrow/Avnet/etc. Sometimes even cheaper. And in most cases their markup is >>>>>>> less than 100%. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That is another twin, DigiKey, that has everything marked up to the ears. I >>>>>>> never understood why people do purchase anything from them... >>>>>>> >>>>>> Because they have the only search engine that works. >>>>> Do they? >>>> Yes. >>> Have you ever tried findchips/octopart? >>> >> Have you tried the example I gave you this morning? > > So what? Findchips shows quite a bunch. A mere fraction of what Digikey offers. > ... And it is beyond my understanding > why would one search for those... > Maybe because you don't design for mass production :-) I need to see the offerings of half a dozen mfgs right at my finger tips. At Digikey I do, at Findchips I don't. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Sergey Kubushyn on 29 Jul 2010 20:46
Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> Sergey Kubushyn wrote: >>> [...] >>>>>> Just one example--I recently tried to buy several thousands of >>>>>> BC550/60C transistors. The funny thing was Avnet had BC560CTA @ $0.0163 >>>>>> each but no BC550C at all. I bought 2 ammopacks of 2,000 for $65 from them >>>>>> (that was all they had in stock.) On the other hand Arrow only had (and >>>>>> still have) BC550CTA at the same price but no BC560C at all. That was a >>>>>> couple of days ago. Now Avnet has 32K of BC550CTA in stock. If you were >>>>>> shopping at Avnet only a week ago you would've said that BC550C are >>>>>> unobtanium because they do not have them in stock while both findchips and >>>>>> octopart kept telling Arrow has plenty in stock. >>>>>> >>>>> Just what I said all along, should have gone to Digikey, they have >>>>> oodles of them: >>>>> >>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC550CGOS-ND >>>> If you want to pay 3x the price, sure. And 7,055 pcs is not "oodles." And >>>> even those are just remnants, the other BC550Cxx are non-stocked. And this >>>> only one will also go non-stocked when they are bought. >>>> >>>> And they are exactly at the same point with BC560C. 4,000 left in stock at >>>> 2x price and a big fat warning they will go non-stocked once that inventory >>>> is sold. >>>> >>> Sergey, let's face it, nearly all thru-hole stuff is going to head for >>> lalaland. Ok, we were really early adopters over in Europe back then, >>> but since the start of my industrial career in 1986 I can't remember any >>> thru-hole board I have designed. And I've designed tons of boards. >>> >>> There will always be mfgs for thru-hole, just like Sovtek and Svetlana >>> do for tubes, but it's going to be boutique-ware. >> >> That is what I'm using them for. Not with tubes but for audio. >> >> The rumours about their death are grossly exagerrated. Fairchild makes those >> full steam and they are dirt cheap. Toshiba is back with their 2SK170 and >> 2SK369 parts that were discontinued long ago. And those parts are TO-92. >> BTW, Fairchild picked up a lot of Japanese transistors and now there is >> plenty of 2SA/SB/SC parts in their lineup. >> >> Definitely I could replace BC550/BC560 with SOT-23 BC850/BC860 but it >> doesn't make any sence because rest of the part is all big thruhole ones. >> Nobody makes SMD polystyrene capacitors, less for high-tolerance ones. There >> is no replacement for low-noise RN55/60 resistors (at least cheap one) for >> sub-millivolt audio circuits. I would love to make SMD version but there is >> no parts for that... >> > > They won't go totally belly up by the only places I know that do > thru-hole mass production are all in China now. So some day you may have > to buy parts from Asia. Nah, I don't do mass-production of those. There is no _THAT_ many people who want to purchase a high-quality (not audiofool HiEnd one with inferior parameters but enormous price tag) phono corrector :) My program is a couple of thousands. And it is not just because of low demand but also because of component availability. I'm using Russian Military Surplus/Spare Parts Repository polystyrene capacitors, K71-1 with 0.5% tolerance and that is limited and finite supply. Once they gone they gone forever. That product is hand-assembled so I don't care who does mass production :) > If your needs are audio check out the BCX70k. Nice low 1/f corner. Thanks, but they are not any better than BC850/860. Roughly the same specs. BTW, I'd better go purchase a couple of reels of BC850C and BC860C while they are available (from Mouser :)) before they gone... It is not BJTs that are so rare, it is JFETs... I would've been extremely happy if 2SK369 existed in SOT-23... There is another problem though--I need matched pairs of those :( Not something that can be done with Pick-and-Place machine... There are Linear systems LSK389 but they are single source and not very reliable one... One should be out of his mind to design something with such a Maximese part... As for the capacitors, Panasonic makes SMD polyphenylensulfide (hope I spelled it right) ones that are supposedly on par with polypropylens but I didn't try them yet. And the tolerance issue remains--they are 5%... --- ****************************************************************** * KSI(a)home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ****************************************************************** |