Ball Lightning
in [Physics]
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From: HVAC on 20 May 2010 13:44 "Mitchell Jones" <mjones(a)21cenlogic.com> wrote in message news:mjones-27FDC0.11035220052010(a)newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com... > > ***{So ball lightning is a magnetically-induced hallucination? The > lightning stroke produces a magnetic pulse which in turn triggers > neurons in the brain, which fire producing apparent spots before the > eyes? That's what the author's say. I didn't write the article. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-05/uoi-mbl051810.php Here's a link for you with the author's info. > Sorry, but that doesn't work. There would be no relationship, by this > theory, between the position of the ball lightning and the path > traversed by the lightning stroke. The "ball lighting," by this theory, > is in the mind, not in the world. However, many reports of ball > lightning do not fit that scenario. For example, one day many years ago > I was driving while a storm was approaching. I was on a road near the > edge of a cliff, which dropped off for about 30 feet, almost straight > down, near the edge of the road to my right, to a flat field with grass > and some widely scattered oak trees, one of which was very large. As it > happened, I was looking at that tree, which was about 100 feet away, > when it was struck by lightning. A bolt struck the tree and then, as it > dissipated, it broke into thousands of glowing balls, each roughly the > size of a basketball, which then disappeared. Yes. Lightning is still a poorly understood phenomenon. It is possible that when the tree exploded, those 'thousands of basketball-sized glowing balls' were fragments of the tree which were on fire. Trees sometimes explode when hit by lightning (I have seen trees completely disintegrate) because the sap in the tree heats up and boils/flashes in less then a second. > If the balls were a magnetically induced hallucination and existed > solely in my brain, why did their positions perfectly line up with the > path of the lightning bolt, which unarguably existed in the real world? > > Bottom line: lightning is real, and ball lightning is also real. > > --Mitchell Jones}*** Mitch.... I have seen lightning, well I THINK it was lightning, do things that if someone else told me I would think they were nuts. The fact that these events took place on military bases gives me pause in my assessment -- "I don't want to believe, I want to KNOW" - Carl Sagan
From: Bast on 20 May 2010 18:23 BDK wrote: > In article <ht3pkc$d6r$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > fakename(a)nomail.invalid says... >> >> >> Mitchell Jones wrote: >>> In article >>> <7f46616b-75a0-49a1-ad8f-df8134da2bd1(a)q13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, >>> HVAC <mr.hvac(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Ball lightning is a rare circular light phenomenon occurring during >>>> thunderstorms. Scientists have been puzzled by the nature of these >>>> apparent fire balls for a long time. Now physicists at the University >>>> of Innsbruck have calculated that the magnetic field of long >>>> lightning strokes may produce the image of luminous shapes, also >>>> known as phosphenes, in the brain. This finding may offer an >>>> explanation for many ball lightning observations. >>>> >>>> Physicists Josef Peer and Alexander Kendl from the University of >>>> Innsbruck have studied electromagnetic fields of different types of >>>> lightning strokes occurring during thunderstorms. Their calculations >>>> suggest that the magnetic fields of a specific class of long lasting >>>> repetitive lightning discharges show the same properties as >>>> transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), a technique commonly used in >>>> clinical and psychiatric practice to stimulate neural activity in the >>>> human brain. Time varying and sufficiently strong magnetic fields >>>> induce electrical fields in the brain, specifically, in neurons of >>>> the visual cortex, which may invoke phosphenes. "In the clinical >>>> application of TMS, luminous and apparently real visual perceptions >>>> in varying shapes and colors within the visual field of the patients >>>> and test persons are reported and well examined," says Alexander >>>> Kendl. The Innsbruck physicists have now calculated that a near >>>> lightning stroke of long lasting thunderbolts may also generate >>>> these luminous visions, which are likely to appear as ball lightning. >>>> >>>> Is the mystery of ball lightning solved now? >>>> >>>> Ball lightnings are rather rare events. The majority of researchers >>>> agree that different phenomena are likely to be summarized under the >>>> collective term "ball lightning." Over time, various theories and >>>> propositions about the nature of these experiences have been >>>> suggested. Other researchers have produced luminous fire balls in the >>>> laboratory, which appeared not completely unlike ball lightning and >>>> could explain some of the observations but were mostly too short >>>> lived. Other plausible explanations for some of observations are St. >>>> Elmo's fire, luminous dust balls or small molten balls of metal. In >>>> which cases then, can a lightning bolt invoke a ball-shaped >>>> phosphene? " >>>> >>>> Lightning strokes with repetitive discharges producing stimulating >>>> magnetic fields over a period of a few seconds are rather rare and >>>> only occur in about one in one hundred events," reports physicist >>>> Kendl. "An observer located within few hundred metres of a long >>>> lightning stroke may experience a magnetic phosphene in the shape of >>>> a luminous spot." Also other sensations, such as noises or smells, >>>> may be induced. Since the term "ball lightning" is well known from >>>> media reports, observers are likely to classify lightning phosphenes >>>> as such. Alexander Kendl's hypothesis that in fact the majority of >>>> ball lightning observations are phosphenes is strongly supported by >>>> its simplicity: "Contrary to other theories describing floating fire >>>> balls, no new and other suppositions are necessary." >>> >>> ***{So ball lightning is a magnetically-induced hallucination? The >>> lightning stroke produces a magnetic pulse which in turn triggers >>> neurons in the brain, which fire producing apparent spots before the >>> eyes? >>> >>> Sorry, but that doesn't work. There would be no relationship, by this >>> theory, between the position of the ball lightning and the path >>> traversed by the lightning stroke. The "ball lighting," by this >>> theory, is in the mind, not in the world. However, many reports of >>> ball lightning do not fit that scenario. For example, one day many >>> years ago I was driving while a storm was approaching. I was on a >>> road near the edge of a cliff, which dropped off for about 30 feet, >>> almost straight down, near the edge of the road to my right, to a >>> flat field with grass and some widely scattered oak trees, one of >>> which was very large. As it happened, I was looking at that tree, >>> which was about 100 feet away, when it was struck by lightning. A >>> bolt struck the tree and then, as it dissipated, it broke into >>> thousands of glowing balls, each roughly the size of a basketball, >>> which then disappeared. >>> >>> If the balls were a magnetically induced hallucination and existed >>> solely in my brain, why did their positions perfectly line up with the >>> path of the lightning bolt, which unarguably existed in the real >>> world? >>> >>> Bottom line: lightning is real, and ball lightning is also real. >>> >>> --Mitchell Jones}*** >>> >> >> >> I have seen ball lightning myself (only one time), and there were 3 >> others who saw it at the same time. >> And we all saw exactly the same thing, and heard the same strange >> crackling/hissing noise. >> >> I can not explain it to this day, nor do I even try, but just accept >> that it exists. >> >> >> > > What it did to our two TVs was very impressive. Vaporized the antenna > leads in both, and almost totally blew away the components on all the PC > boards. You could see shadows where some of the parts once were, but > most all the smaller parts were just gone. The one I encountered was nowhere near as destructive. And left no proof it existed at all. It was out in the country years ago while we were camping, with no power lines around for miles. We never noticed it come from anywhere, just floated about 6 - 7 feet off the ground for about 200 yards and then faded away. It made sound but barely audible, had there been any city noises around we might not have heard anything at all. Had only one of us seen it, or each saw something different I might say it was some brain induced hallucinations. But we all saw the same thing. However we also all realized that if we told anyone else they would probably lock us up.<g> Like I said I can't explain it to this day, but I would have no problem believing others if they told me it happened to them now.
From: HVAC on 21 May 2010 06:15 "Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ht43uf$p61$1(a)news.albasani.net... >> >>> I personally think ball-lightning could be an electron black hole. >> >> >>Excuse me? > > google electron black hole. > > > I twas provbly discussed here when you were still in diapers. I apologize. I forgot that I was in a kook newsgroup. >>> Dinosaurs, humanity will go dinosaur's way that way. >> >> >> >>You don't have to be a kook to write like one.... >> >>But it helps! > > Yes, it shows, the VAC of H must be just above your shoulders. Well, I'm glad you cleared that up........ > Theoretical nonsense, and let's see, we have > all sorts of that, from strings to branes, should be verified by > observation. > Any nutcase can dream up some wild idea, like those guys, but they never > did check against real observations. > Math (they 'calculated something') has replaced physics. > It is sick, very sick, that is why they have not produced anything useful > since the bombs, > And with 'they' I mean particle fisicks. > Hope that makes it clear for you. Oh. ALL is now clear.
From: Mitchell Jones on 21 May 2010 17:28 In article <ht3sdo$3ph$1(a)hvac.motzarella.org>, "HVAC" <mr.hvac(a)gmail.com> wrote: > "Mitchell Jones" <mjones(a)21cenlogic.com> wrote in message > news:mjones-27FDC0.11035220052010(a)newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com... > > > > ***{So ball lightning is a magnetically-induced hallucination? The > > lightning stroke produces a magnetic pulse which in turn triggers > > neurons in the brain, which fire producing apparent spots before the > > eyes? > > That's what the author's say. I didn't write the article. > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-05/uoi-mbl051810.php > > Here's a link for you with the author's info. > > > Sorry, but that doesn't work. There would be no relationship, by this > > theory, between the position of the ball lightning and the path > > traversed by the lightning stroke. The "ball lighting," by this theory, > > is in the mind, not in the world. However, many reports of ball > > lightning do not fit that scenario. For example, one day many years ago > > I was driving while a storm was approaching. I was on a road near the > > edge of a cliff, which dropped off for about 30 feet, almost straight > > down, near the edge of the road to my right, to a flat field with grass > > and some widely scattered oak trees, one of which was very large. As it > > happened, I was looking at that tree, which was about 100 feet away, > > when it was struck by lightning. A bolt struck the tree and then, as it > > dissipated, it broke into thousands of glowing balls, each roughly the > > size of a basketball, which then disappeared. > > > Yes. Lightning is still a poorly understood phenomenon. > > It is possible that when the tree exploded, those 'thousands > of basketball-sized glowing balls' were fragments of the tree > which were on fire. ***{No. The glowing balls appeared along the path of the lightning stroke, from the tree all the way back up into the sky. If they had been centered around fragments of the tree, they would have followed ballistic paths away from the point where the bolt struck the tree. --MJ}*** > > Trees sometimes explode when hit by lightning (I have seen trees > completely disintegrate) because the sap in the tree heats up and > boils/flashes in less then a second. ***{While there was doubtlessly damage done to the tree and an explosion of vaporized sap at the point of impact, the thing that caught my eye was the appearance of thousands of glowing balls, stretching back up into the sky along the exact path taken by the bolt. They hung there for a second or two, and then disappeared, but there was no ambiguity about the experience. They were crystal clear and unmistakably real, to anyone who had the privilege of being there at the time. --MJ}*** > > If the balls were a magnetically induced hallucination and existed > > solely in my brain, why did their positions perfectly line up with the > > path of the lightning bolt, which unarguably existed in the real world? > > > > Bottom line: lightning is real, and ball lightning is also real. > > > > --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > Mitch.... I have seen lightning, well I THINK it was lightning, > do things that if someone else told me I would think they > were nuts. > > The fact that these events took place on military bases > gives me pause in my assessment. ***{I was nowhere near a military base when I had the experience I described. And it was undoubtedly lightning. The only surprise was at the end, when the bolt dissolved into thousands of glowing balls, before it disappeared. --MJ}*** ***************************************************************** If I seem to be ignoring you, consider the possibility that you are in my killfile. --MJ
From: Hagar on 21 May 2010 21:21
<UseNetOnly(a)t-online.de> wrote in message news:j61dv59f039nel5odof00dd18l5qst9n3f(a)pasoschweiz.de... > On Thu, 20 May 2010 13:44:24 -0400, "HVAC" <mr.hvac(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>I have seen trees >>completely disintegrate > > Agent Orange? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange > Quote: Agent Orange is the code name for an herbicide and > defoliant-contaminated with TCDD-used by the U.S. military in its > herbicidal warfare program during the Vietnam War. > According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million > Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 > deaths and disabilities, and 500,000 children born with birth > defects.[1] > From 1961 to 1971, Agent Orange was by far the most widely used of the > so-called "Rainbow Herbicides" employed in the herbicidal warfare > program. During the production of Agent Orange (as well as Agents > Purple, Pink, and Green) dioxins were produced as a contaminant, which > have caused numerous health problems for the millions of people who have > been exposed. Agents Blue and White were part of the same program but > did not contain dioxins. We asked the fine folks who gave the world Zyklon-B to develop something to eradicate the gooks at the same rate Hitler's goon wasted Jews ... that's the best they could do, Chuckles. Hope that helps you out, you moronic goat humper. |