Bounced messages- where are they going?!
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From: R.W. on 6 May 2010 18:24 Hi Christian. Thanks for your reply. Please take a look at my reply to Dennis's message above. Bounced messages just seem to disappear. Neither my webhost nor ISP can account for them and without actually seeing one, we have no way to follow the trail. "Christian" <christian100221(a)chance-for-children.org> wrote in message news:1ji3hrq.40maj0si93ykN%christian100221(a)chance-for-children.org... > R.W. <ranger52oc(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> 3) Since ALL outbound mail uses myname(a)mycompany.com as the Email >> Address, >> then ALL bounces MUST go to my webhost BEFORE a "decision" can be made >> about >> what to do with them. > > No. Why should it? > > A message composed in Eudora with the sender's address > myname(a)mycompany.com is handled by the receiving SMTP server (your > ISP's, in this case) and delivered to it's destination. If the > destination address is faulty, it may either bounce from the > destination's mail server to the address set in the From field - which > is your webhost's mail server, or to another address set in another > header of your message. If you don't see it in your webhost's mail > server, it is probably at some address at your ISP's mail server. Is > there any other address given in the Eudora settings for that account? > If so, check that address. > > You should analyze your complete headers on a correctly addressed > message sent the same way to find this out. > > Christian > > -- > Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland) > Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org
From: Christian on 7 May 2010 01:39 R.W. <ranger52oc(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Please take a look at my reply to Dennis's message above. Bounced messages > just seem to disappear. Neither my webhost nor ISP can account for them and > without actually seeing one, we have no way to follow the trail. I wrote that you should look at a _correctly addressed_ and delivered message sent via your ISP's SMTP server and analyse it's full headers. There might be an indication to what place the faulty message bounces. Of course, you can't analyse headers of a message which you don't have access to... Christian -- Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland) Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org
From: John H Meyers on 7 May 2010 11:29 On 5/5/2010 5:49 PM, R.W. wrote: > I have two personalities in Eudora. One fetches mail from my ISP and the > other fetches mail from my webhost. The Email Address I use for BOTH Eudora > personalities is myname(a)mycompany.com. Eudora flawlessly and reliably > fetches mail from BOTH locations with one exception. Bounces. But only > bounces that start out from Eudora. Not quite a perfect analysis -- Eudora fetches all mail that was _delivered to a specific account on a specific POP server_ Ergo, the mail you are looking for was not delivered to the specific account on the specific POP server where you are telling Eudora to look. You sent mail from two completely different systems, only an invalid "To:" address in common (though you say also "From:" address), and you don't know why one of these did not get a Delivery Status Notification sent back -- well, are you sure that you are checking the right POP server for it (and that no server-side action is filtering it, etc.)? This is not easy to determine, but it certainly isn't Eudora's fault. > If I log onto my webhost's webmail and send a message to an invalid address, > it bounces back to my webmail inbox instantly, just like it should. With what error code and message, reported by what server? There's a great deal of detail in a complete Delivery Status Notification, and simply saying "it bounced" does not convey any of it. > If, however, I send a message to that same invalid address from Eudora, the > message never bounces. Well, it probably actually DOES bounce, but so far my > webhost techs can't tell me where that bounced message goes. If any DSN is going to be returned at all, the rules would be found in http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5321 Search for "reverse-path" and "return-path" However, your "webmail" is not routed through the same path as mail sent via Eudora, and you don't know as much about how it is sent. Some of our servers (or those we use to route mail to us), for example, will "blackhole" mail coming from certain places, with no response at all, particularly if they believe they are receiving certain kinds of "attack" (e.g. "Directory Harvest Attack" -- trying to send to random addresses, to see whether some of the addresses may happen to be be accepted as valid). Messages thought to be spam may also be blackholed, and scoring of "spam" may depend in part upon exactly where it came from (could be different results from different relaying servers, could even be different sorts of errors caused by each). Why don't you try sending the same messages using Outlook Express (or any other client you happen to have, other than Eudora), via the exact same SMTP server and all other settings (and headers). --
From: John H Meyers on 7 May 2010 12:14 On 5/5/2010 5:49 PM, R.W. wrote: Sorry, I missed something: > ALL outbound mail uses myname(a)mycompany.com as the Email Address, > One other thing- if I temporarily change the Email Address settings > of my Eudora personalities to myname(a)myISPcompany.com, > then bounces happen instantly. What are the real values of @mycompany.com and @myISPcompany.com and is the "myname" part the same for each address? Then you can analyze further for yourself: Open a command prompt (run: cmd.exe) and type, using the real domains: nslookup -type=MX mycompany.com nslookup -type=MX myISPcompany.com Are you sure that you can receive any mail at all from the world at the address which even "bounces" don't reach? --
From: R.W. on 7 May 2010 13:44
Thanks John. My ISP email address is name(a)ISPname.net (login name @ my ISP company name . net) My webhost email address is name(a)mycompanyname.com (my first name @ the name of my business . com) The names (before the "@") are different. I can get ALL bounces back by simply changing the email settings in Eudora to name(a)ISPname.net, but I don't want my customers to see that address. I want them to see name(a)mycompanyname.com only. The real frustrating part of all this is since bounced messages (when composed in Eudora) never come back (or if they do, nobody can tell me where they go!), there is nothing to look at or compare to a bounced message composed in webmail. I always use the same invalid Yahoo address to send my test messages to. And yes- if I send a properly addressed message from Eudora (or webmail), and the recipient replies, I do indeed receive the message. It lands in my webmail inbox and Eudora fetches it as advertised! "John H Meyers" <jhmeyers(a)nomail.invalid> wrote in message news:4BE43C5E.3040205(a)nomail.invalid... > On 5/5/2010 5:49 PM, R.W. wrote: > > Sorry, I missed something: > >> ALL outbound mail uses myname(a)mycompany.com as the Email Address, > >> One other thing- if I temporarily change the Email Address settings >> of my Eudora personalities to myname(a)myISPcompany.com, >> then bounces happen instantly. > > What are the real values of @mycompany.com and @myISPcompany.com > and is the "myname" part the same for each address? > > Then you can analyze further for yourself: > > Open a command prompt (run: cmd.exe) > and type, using the real domains: > > nslookup -type=MX mycompany.com > > nslookup -type=MX myISPcompany.com > > Are you sure that you can receive any mail at all from the world > at the address which even "bounces" don't reach? > > -- |