Can we detect a blueshift of –c?
in [Physics]
|
Prev: Dave Rothschild On Astro Physics & Alex Jones' "Scientific Dictatorship" Re: America: The Dark Ages For Science
Next: Two time slowdowns come together
From: BURT on 21 Apr 2010 22:49 On Apr 21, 7:17 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 21, 6:59 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Apr 21, 6:25 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Apr 21, 6:15 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Apr 21, 5:56 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 21, 5:41 pm, artful <artful...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Apr 22, 10:35 am, Brad Guth <bradg...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > In other words, if something substantial (such as a 10 solar mass > > > > > > > super-star and its tidal swarm of Jupiter+ planets) was headed as > > > > > > > seemingly directly towards us at c (-299.8e3 km/sec), could that item > > > > > > > regardless of its size, mass and vibrance be detected? > > > > > > > > Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / Guth Usenet > > > > > > > Nothing with mass can have a speed of c .. so your question is not > > > > > > valid. But if it was travelling fast enough, its light would be > > > > > > Doppler shifted to beyond the visible spectrum .. but then, and lower > > > > > > frequency EMR from it could be shifted into the visible spectrum. > > > > > > We're told by our peers that the outer parts of our universe is likely > > > > > expanding/receding at c, as sort of leaving us in its photon dust that > > > > > we'll never detect. > > > > > > Stop avoiding the truth-seeking context or intent of my topic. > > > > > > LHC proves that matter can be artificially directed towards other > > > > > matter at a closing velocity of <2c. > > > > > > ~ BG > > > > > Increased strength of gravity blueshifts light from its fundamental by > > > > gravity Gamma factor. > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > Are you suggesting gravity has the same velocity as photons? > > > > I thought gravity was worth at least 2c. > > > > ~ BG- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Two light waves traveling toward one another (in a gravity) would > > converge on a center at 2C. > > > Mitch Raemsch > > That seems likely, but even if each were making a velocity towards the > other at .5c for a closing velocity of c, could we as one item detect > the other? But light never travels in empty space at .5c > > ~ BG- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: Brad Guth on 24 Apr 2010 01:33 On Apr 23, 7:31 am, dlzc <dl...(a)cox.net> wrote: > Dear Brad Guth: > > On Apr 22, 9:39 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Apr 22, 7:36 am, dlzc <dl...(a)cox.net> wrote: > > > On Apr 21, 10:46 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > ... > > > > > Should any parts or items of our universe be collapsing > > > > towards us at c, could we detect it? > > > > No. The laws of physics do not permit detection of > > > motion in raging pink fairy Universes. > > > Can we detect a blueshift of c? > > We can detect blue shifts right up to -c. We cannot get any emitter > to -c to find out. We bounce visible light photons off of very high > speed electrons, and we get gamma ray photons with energies of up to > gamma^2 of the electrons. > > In a Universe that permitted objects to move faster than c, the "death > train" you imagine would be preceeded by hosts of particles from > previous collisions at up to 2c. Unless some evil Cosmic A**hole > invented it to only collide with us. > > David A. Smtih That's good to know, even if the closing velocity were only reaching 99.9999%c. Perhaps all we need is a good Planck photon detector. ~ BG
From: Brad Guth on 25 Apr 2010 14:16 Our universe is supposedly expanding at the redshift of <c ot perhaps even greater, and as such we canât detect those items as they expand away from us. If something substantial (such as a 10 solar mass super-star and its tidal associated swarm of Jupiter+ planets w/moons) was headed as seemingly directly towards us at âc (-299.8e3 km/sec), could that item regardless of size, mass and vibrance of energy be detected? Once more on behalf of: âcan we detect a blueshift of âc?â Should any parts or items of whateverâs in our universe be collapsing towards us at âc, could we detect it? In other words, what exactly should a 100% blueshift of âc look or detect like? On Apr 22, 9:47 am, "Greg Neill" <gneil...(a)MOVEsympatico.ca> wrote: > 100% red shift, to take your implied meaning, would result in > photon frequencies of zero by the time it arrived. That is, > an observer could not have any physical way to detect them > since relative to him the photons would have zero energy. > E = h*f . Would any of those 100% red-shift photons of zero Hz ever arrive to be detected? Perhaps the opposite of 100% red-shift and zero Hz, being 100% blue- shift makes every âc associated photon = Planck Hz or âHz (as equally invisible or undetectable). Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / âGuth Usenetâ
From: Brad Guth on 25 Apr 2010 14:19 On Apr 25, 11:16Â am, Brad Guth <bradg...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Our universe is supposedly expanding at the redshift of <c ot perhaps > even greater, and as such we canât detect those items as they expand > away from us. > > If something substantial (such as a 10 solar mass super-star and its > tidal associated swarm of Jupiter+ planets w/moons) was headed as > seemingly directly towards us at âc (-299.8e3 km/sec), could that item > regardless of size, mass and vibrance of energy be detected? > > Once more on behalf of: âcan we detect a blueshift of âc?â > Should any parts or items of whateverâs in our universe be collapsing > towards us at âc, could we detect it? > > In other words, what exactly should a 100% blueshift of âc look or > detect like? > > On Apr 22, 9:47 am, "Greg Neill" <gneil...(a)MOVEsympatico.ca> wrote: > > > 100% red shift, to take your implied meaning, would result in > > photon frequencies of zero by the time it arrived. Â That is, > > an observer could not have any physical way to detect them > > since relative to him the photons would have zero energy. > > E = h*f . > > Would any of those 100% red-shift photons of zero Hz ever arrive to be > detected? > > Perhaps the opposite of 100% red-shift and zero Hz, being 100% blue- > shift makes every âc associated photon = Planck Hz or âHz (as equally > invisible or undetectable). > > Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / âGuth Usenetâ On Apr 23, 5:09 am, "Greg Neill" <gneil...(a)MOVEsympatico.ca> wrote: : If your observed star is relatively close by, it's observed : velocity will be limited by an upper bound approaching c. : The further away it is (and the closer it gets to our : cosmic horizon), the motion due to the expansion of the : space between us and it has to be added to its motion : through space, decreasing the net observed velocity. : : Near the horizon, a body moving at near c in its local space : in a direction towards us will have a net velocity near : zero (the best it could do would be to stand still with : respect to us), and so its red shift would be very small. : : There is no way for a body to be observed moving towards : us at c. That's exactly what Iâd thought. If we're moving away or towards other mass at c, we'd be oblivious to realizing its existence. I understand there's a few rogue stars within our galaxy moving at 1500 km/sec, and it's thought possible that stars further out could easily be moving at .5c, so what if another star were moving towards the other at .5c, making their mutual blue-shift closing velocity c. Due to their relative closing velocity of this example being c, could either of those fast moving stars notice the other? (I don't think so) It seems anything moving away or towards us at c (relative to us) becomes stealth/invisible. This simply means weâre always at some degree of risk, unless fast moving exogravity flux can be detected. A substantial neutron star or black hole closing in on us, even if it were passing well outside of Pluto could be a cosmic form of fatal attraction, whereas just the gravitational shockwave of one light year radii alone could perturb and/or traumatize most everything about our solar system. Depending on its core mass (Iâd suggested 2e31 kg), plus the surrounding gravitational fields as to whatever assortments of planets and assorted debris forming their combined ionized particle shockwave as representing at the very least one light year radii should offer a 2 year window of realizing its passing existence (remember that our own solar cryogenic Oort cloud has nearly a light year radii). Of course we'd likely be vaporized or at least badly affected before we ever realized what just happened. NGO (near galactic object): Encountering a large galactic mass of say 1.4e42 kg might for example offer at least a 100,000 year window or cycle of detection. Perhaps a reasonably deductive swag as to our global warming trend is just offering such an indication (not that Newtonian tidal interactions from our moon/Selene as well as Andromeda are insignificant and that we humans havenât been making our environment measurably worse), whereas the mostly fluid mass of Earth is acting as a gravitational tsunami detector of what we canât otherwise manage to see or detect... Even if Andromeda were to be closing at 99.9999% c, it would be a good 2.5 million years before those pesky galactic interactions started taking place, plus another couple hundred thousand years of considerable collateral damage before parting away from one another. So, a fast arriving galaxy thatâs invisible to us because of its blueshift velocity, as such could become a real surprise once those unexplained cosmic interactions start taking place. ~ BG
From: G. L. Bradford on 25 Apr 2010 18:16
"Peter Webb" <webbfamily(a)DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:4bd234ca$0$25779$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... > > "G. L. Bradford" <glbrad01(a)insightbb.com> wrote in message > news:hLKdnbeMKt7cTkzWnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d(a)insightbb.com... >> >> "Peter Webb" <webbfamily(a)DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message >> news:4bd17fc8$0$1783$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... >>> >>> "G. L. Bradford" <glbrad01(a)insightbb.com> wrote in message >>> news:mbmdnT_wTsTV-0zWnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d(a)insightbb.com... >>>> >>>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:l9qdnbLCqtlQ703WnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d(a)mchsi.com... >>>>> On 4/22/10 3:19 AM, G. L. Bradford wrote: >>>>>> "Everywhere we look the universe is expanding." >>>>>> >>>>>> Which universe, Sam? Just arbitrarily speaking, there are a minimum >>>>>> of >>>>>> 13.75 billion universes showing. A minimum of 13.75 billion very thin >>>>>> time-slice universes observed for [our] observable universe. In total >>>>>> view, the observed universe is a total fiction that [as observed >>>>>> whole] >>>>>> does not exist in space, never existed in space at any time, never >>>>>> existing [in] any time at all. >>>>> >>>>> Are you able to carry on reasonable conversations of a technical or >>>>> scientific nature face-to-face with other humans? >>>>> >>>>> Look up "universe" in a dictionary. Probably a better scientific >>>>> definition for universe is everything to which we are causally >>>>> connected. Our observable universe extends back in time to about >>>>> 13.7 billion years. >>>>> >>>>> This should keep you busy for a while: >>>>> http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html >>>> >>>> ===================== >>>> >>>> And you will never understand that that is a constant base.....a base >>>> (horizon) constant. It never was anything different (not even an >>>> eternity ago) and it never will be anything different (not even in an >>>> eternity from now). But you seem to be too stuck in the mud of just >>>> another version of Creationism to even conceive of a continuing base >>>> (what would be considered an 'endless beginning' that is at once also >>>> an 'endless end' -- an infinite Singularity of singularities), thus >>>> continuance in the horizon over base, of base, from base, to base..... >>>> A constancy of base and thus a constancy of every single dimension or >>>> plane of complexity existing. Both macro- and micro-verse horizon >>>> constant (exactly the same horizon constant). >>>> >>> >>> Wow. That's far out. >>> >>>> After all these years you've come to remind me so much of what the >>>> competent militaries of history and today have always called "a fourth >>>> class officer." Otherwise, nothing but a digit, just a place fill (a >>>> low grade hack) in your profession. Too bad. >>>> >>>> GLB >>>> >>> >>> Actually, he reminds me of what people call a "physicist". >>> >>> OTOH, you remind me of how good dope was back in the 70s. >>> >>> >> >> ========================= >> >> No, he won't. Neither he nor Park will remind you of anything like a >> "physicist" in another few years of the regimes they've helped put in >> power over the world. > > ______________________________________ > So Wormley works for the CIA, huh? > > <giggle> > > =================== Support all you want a late Roman Empire-like girlie-man and radical Dark Age priest combo who fanatically expounds upon the belief that Man is bad for the universe and Earth causing climate changes and so on; being therefore the direct cause of all the earthquakes and volcanoes to hit the world lately. That Man is the worse [weapon of mass destruction] of them all needing the tightest controls, the tightest rule, the most unbreakable corralling, of them all. So he is what you think a "scientist" is, uh? Well as so many real scientists, real thinkers, in their fields of study have pointed out over literally thousands of years, in a closed off -confined- world there will develop so many -- far too many -- of you with a savage smallness and narrowness -- a savage mindlessness, to match to fit such a Hell (to match to fit concentration camp earth). GLB ("A society in which all potential abilities are allowed to develop and function will have a survival advantage in the competition of groups. This competition becomes more severe as the destruction of distance intensifies the confrontation of states." -- Will Durant, The Lessons of History) =================== |