Cheap PCB fab place (for non-urgent stuff)
in [Design]
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From: Joerg on 16 Apr 2010 10:41 John Devereux wrote: > Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes: > >> Martin Riddle wrote: >>> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>> news:82jdnbFkdmU3(a)mid.individual.net... >>>> Rich Webb wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:41:37 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Gents, >>>>>> >>>>>> Was mentioned in this month's IEEE Spectrum: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Faq >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not something for urgent projects, you can't have more than >>>>>> four layers and no really small drill sizes but it sure is >>>>>> cheap. Seems like this is run by Sparkfun. >>>>> I've used it and it's fully in compliance with the old saying "Good, >>>>> fast, or cheap. Pick two." No complaints at all about the board >>>>> quality >>>>> (two-sided) and the prices are certainly good. Actually, I received >>>>> twice the number of boards that I had ordered at no extra cost, >>>>> presumably because it was used to fill out the panel. They did take a >>>>> while to be received, though! >>>>> >>>> Sure, it's only for projects along the lines of "I always wanted to >>>> have ...", not for urgent client stuff. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Regards, Joerg >>> Just got a quote from http://www.myropcb.com/ on a 2 layer board >>> (5x6), $90 for 5 pcs. >>> This is almost $2.50 a square inch. Except its for 5 and delivery is >>> 2 weeks. >>> Someone here had pointed them out. We had some 4 layer stuff done >>> and the quality is excellent. >>> >> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS >> boards which I avoid whenever possible. Most of my projects are non-EU >> or exempt. > > Well.... don't order them RoHS then! What, you're going to boycott them > because they *can* do RoHS? :) > No, will have to ask. But what I found with several shops is that their standard procedure is RoHS and if you deviate from that there'll be steep extra charges. Then I'd prefer a place that has a standard non-RoHS process. However, often I was able to negotiate the $500 or whatever non-RoHS surcharge away. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: John Devereux on 16 Apr 2010 11:05 Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes: > John Devereux wrote: >> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes: >> >>> Martin Riddle wrote: >>>> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:82jdnbFkdmU3(a)mid.individual.net... >>>>> Rich Webb wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:41:37 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Gents, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Was mentioned in this month's IEEE Spectrum: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Faq >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's not something for urgent projects, you can't have more than >>>>>>> four layers and no really small drill sizes but it sure is >>>>>>> cheap. Seems like this is run by Sparkfun. >>>>>> I've used it and it's fully in compliance with the old saying "Good, >>>>>> fast, or cheap. Pick two." No complaints at all about the board >>>>>> quality >>>>>> (two-sided) and the prices are certainly good. Actually, I received >>>>>> twice the number of boards that I had ordered at no extra cost, >>>>>> presumably because it was used to fill out the panel. They did take a >>>>>> while to be received, though! >>>>>> >>>>> Sure, it's only for projects along the lines of "I always wanted to >>>>> have ...", not for urgent client stuff. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>> Just got a quote from http://www.myropcb.com/ on a 2 layer board >>>> (5x6), $90 for 5 pcs. >>>> This is almost $2.50 a square inch. Except its for 5 and delivery is >>>> 2 weeks. >>>> Someone here had pointed them out. We had some 4 layer stuff done >>>> and the quality is excellent. >>>> >>> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS >>> boards which I avoid whenever possible. Most of my projects are non-EU >>> or exempt. >> >> Well.... don't order them RoHS then! What, you're going to boycott them >> because they *can* do RoHS? :) >> > > No, will have to ask. But what I found with several shops is that > their standard procedure is RoHS and if you deviate from that there'll > be steep extra charges. Then I'd prefer a place that has a standard > non-RoHS process. However, often I was able to negotiate the $500 or > whatever non-RoHS surcharge away. AFAIK, it is RoHS that is the non-standard option, just like you want. If you go into their quoting system you will see that you have to change the defaults for both PCB material and PCB finishing if you do want RoHS. Myro are the Canadian office of a Chinese manufacturer AIUI. I have been dealing with them (from the UK) for over 7 years with generally very good experience. Some of the pooling services might give better pricing on prototypes but have their own restrictions. With Myro you can have non-standard board thicknesses, routing shapes, panelization, scoring, solder resist colours etc. I have even had them make multiple designs on the same panel, they don't seem to mind as long as they are pre-combined in the gerbers, in fact there is an option for that on the quote form. -- John Devereux
From: Joel Koltner on 16 Apr 2010 11:51 "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:82r67sFha4U1(a)mid.individual.net... > Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS boards > which I avoid whenever possible. This is a good strategy. But do you think it'll even be possible in another, say, 5 years? Today pretty much all the parts are meant for RoHS processes, so I'm thinking that since running RoHS and non-RoHS means having to keep two reflow ovens around, over time most all CMs will just go all-RoHS? (Especially for commercial products -- for the military/NASA/etc. where price is no object, I expect niche "leaded" assemblers will stick around... just as there's already a niche market in de-balling lead-free BGAs and re-balling them with leaded solder, often at a cost close to or exceeding the original price of the part!) ---Joel
From: Joerg on 16 Apr 2010 12:36 John Devereux wrote: > Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes: > >> John Devereux wrote: >>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes: >>> >>>> Martin Riddle wrote: >>>>> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>>> news:82jdnbFkdmU3(a)mid.individual.net... >>>>>> Rich Webb wrote: >>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:41:37 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gents, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Was mentioned in this month's IEEE Spectrum: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Faq >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's not something for urgent projects, you can't have more than >>>>>>>> four layers and no really small drill sizes but it sure is >>>>>>>> cheap. Seems like this is run by Sparkfun. >>>>>>> I've used it and it's fully in compliance with the old saying "Good, >>>>>>> fast, or cheap. Pick two." No complaints at all about the board >>>>>>> quality >>>>>>> (two-sided) and the prices are certainly good. Actually, I received >>>>>>> twice the number of boards that I had ordered at no extra cost, >>>>>>> presumably because it was used to fill out the panel. They did take a >>>>>>> while to be received, though! >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sure, it's only for projects along the lines of "I always wanted to >>>>>> have ...", not for urgent client stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>>> Just got a quote from http://www.myropcb.com/ on a 2 layer board >>>>> (5x6), $90 for 5 pcs. >>>>> This is almost $2.50 a square inch. Except its for 5 and delivery is >>>>> 2 weeks. >>>>> Someone here had pointed them out. We had some 4 layer stuff done >>>>> and the quality is excellent. >>>>> >>>> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS >>>> boards which I avoid whenever possible. Most of my projects are non-EU >>>> or exempt. >>> Well.... don't order them RoHS then! What, you're going to boycott them >>> because they *can* do RoHS? :) >>> >> No, will have to ask. But what I found with several shops is that >> their standard procedure is RoHS and if you deviate from that there'll >> be steep extra charges. Then I'd prefer a place that has a standard >> non-RoHS process. However, often I was able to negotiate the $500 or >> whatever non-RoHS surcharge away. > > AFAIK, it is RoHS that is the non-standard option, just like you > want. If you go into their quoting system you will see that you have to > change the defaults for both PCB material and PCB finishing if you do > want RoHS. > Thanks, I looked at the text on the main page which states RoHS. But it is good to know that one can bow out sans penalty. > Myro are the Canadian office of a Chinese manufacturer AIUI. I have been > dealing with them (from the UK) for over 7 years with generally very > good experience. Some of the pooling services might give better pricing > on prototypes but have their own restrictions. With Myro you can have > non-standard board thicknesses, routing shapes, panelization, scoring, > solder resist colours etc. I have even had them make multiple designs on > the same panel, they don't seem to mind as long as they are pre-combined > in the gerbers, in fact there is an option for that on the quote form. > That is nice, others do not like it or slap on a penalty if you combine designs. Some of my design just look like two because there is a 10mm isolation barrier with absolutely nothing on it. Hopefully Canada doesn't mean it has to go through customs twice, China -> Canada -> USA. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 16 Apr 2010 12:47
Joel Koltner wrote: > "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message > news:82r67sFha4U1(a)mid.individual.net... >> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS >> boards which I avoid whenever possible. > > This is a good strategy. > > But do you think it'll even be possible in another, say, 5 years? Today > pretty much all the parts are meant for RoHS processes, so I'm thinking > that since running RoHS and non-RoHS means having to keep two reflow > ovens around, over time most all CMs will just go all-RoHS? ... Possibly. But that would be sad. > ... (Especially > for commercial products -- for the military/NASA/etc. where price is no > object, I expect niche "leaded" assemblers will stick around... just as > there's already a niche market in de-balling lead-free BGAs and > re-balling them with leaded solder, often at a cost close to or > exceeding the original price of the part!) > BGA is another story. I avoid them when at all possible because they are causing so much grief. Having a stiff ceramic-like chip with solder pads on a structure such as FR-4 that is by nature somewhat flexible has IMHO always been a rather sick concept. <told_ya_so_mode> The consequences were as predictable as the real estate bubble bust, pretty soon expensive stuff failed and BGA fix-it shops sprung up in lots of places. Some folks called me a Luddite for shunning BGAs, many of them stopped saying that after some time :-) </told_ya_so_mode> For the same reason I prefer MSOP over DFN. Strangely, the DFN packages are usually more available. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM. |