Cheap PCB fab place (for non-urgent stuff)
in [Design]
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From: Joerg on 16 Apr 2010 17:59 Spehro Pefhany wrote: > On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 06:15:31 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS >> boards which I avoid whenever possible. Most of my projects are non-EU >> or exempt. > > I like the electrolytic gold boards, which are available at no premium > AFAIR, but not RoHS solder. How's the pad adhesion on those, when some g-forces tug on a large SMT part? > ... The gold-plated boards will work in either > case, and seem to last very well on the shelf, even if you don't take > special precautions against like avoiding cardboard (sulphur). > Oh, shelf life can reliably be reduced on those as well. Just pick up chain smoking, but the real stuff such as Bull Durham :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Martin Riddle on 16 Apr 2010 18:04 "John Devereux" <john(a)devereux.me.uk> wrote in message news:877ho7s30b.fsf(a)devereux.me.uk... > Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes: > >> John Devereux wrote: >>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes: >>> >>>> John Devereux wrote: >>>>> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> writes: > > [...] > >>>>>> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do >>>>>> RoHS >>>>>> boards which I avoid whenever possible. Most of my projects are >>>>>> non-EU >>>>>> or exempt. >>>>> Well.... don't order them RoHS then! What, you're going to boycott >>>>> them >>>>> because they *can* do RoHS? :) >>>>> >>>> No, will have to ask. But what I found with several shops is that >>>> their standard procedure is RoHS and if you deviate from that >>>> there'll >>>> be steep extra charges. Then I'd prefer a place that has a standard >>>> non-RoHS process. However, often I was able to negotiate the $500 >>>> or >>>> whatever non-RoHS surcharge away. >>> >>> AFAIK, it is RoHS that is the non-standard option, just like you >>> want. If you go into their quoting system you will see that you have >>> to >>> change the defaults for both PCB material and PCB finishing if you >>> do >>> want RoHS. >>> >> >> Thanks, I looked at the text on the main page which states RoHS. But >> it is good to know that one can bow out sans penalty. >> >> >>> Myro are the Canadian office of a Chinese manufacturer AIUI. I have >>> been >>> dealing with them (from the UK) for over 7 years with generally very >>> good experience. Some of the pooling services might give better >>> pricing >>> on prototypes but have their own restrictions. With Myro you can >>> have >>> non-standard board thicknesses, routing shapes, panelization, >>> scoring, >>> solder resist colours etc. I have even had them make multiple >>> designs on >>> the same panel, they don't seem to mind as long as they are >>> pre-combined >>> in the gerbers, in fact there is an option for that on the quote >>> form. >>> >> >> That is nice, others do not like it or slap on a penalty if you >> combine designs. Some of my design just look like two because there >> is >> a 10mm isolation barrier with absolutely nothing on it. >> >> Hopefully Canada doesn't mean it has to go through customs twice, >> China -> Canada -> USA. > > For the UK they come straight from China, don't know about USA. > They do ship direct from China to the USA. Cheers
From: Martin Riddle on 16 Apr 2010 18:07 "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:82rikoFv55U1(a)mid.individual.net... > Joel Koltner wrote: >> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >> news:82r67sFha4U1(a)mid.individual.net... >>> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS >>> boards which I avoid whenever possible. >> >> This is a good strategy. >> >> But do you think it'll even be possible in another, say, 5 years? >> Today pretty much all the parts are meant for RoHS processes, so I'm >> thinking that since running RoHS and non-RoHS means having to keep >> two reflow ovens around, over time most all CMs will just go >> all-RoHS? ... > > > Possibly. But that would be sad. > >> ... >> (Especially for commercial products -- for the military/NASA/etc. >> where price is no object, I expect niche "leaded" assemblers will >> stick around... just as there's already a niche market in de-balling >> lead-free BGAs and re-balling them with leaded solder, often at a >> cost close to or exceeding the original price of the part!) >> > > BGA is another story. I avoid them when at all possible because they > are causing so much grief. Having a stiff ceramic-like chip with > solder pads on a structure such as FR-4 that is by nature somewhat > flexible has IMHO always been a rather sick concept. > > <told_ya_so_mode> > The consequences were as predictable as the real estate bubble bust, > pretty soon expensive stuff failed and BGA fix-it shops sprung up in > lots of places. Some folks called me a Luddite for shunning BGAs, many > of them stopped saying that after some time :-) > </told_ya_so_mode> > > For the same reason I prefer MSOP over DFN. Strangely, the DFN > packages are usually more available. > > -- They guys that make stuff that go into things that fly, avoid BGA's like the plague. Cheers
From: Martin Riddle on 16 Apr 2010 18:15 "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:82rn1jFo25U2(a)mid.individual.net... > Nico Coesel wrote: >> Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Martin Riddle wrote: >>>> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:82jdnbFkdmU3(a)mid.individual.net... >>>>> Rich Webb wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:41:37 -0700, Joerg >>>>>> <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Gents, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Was mentioned in this month's IEEE Spectrum: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Faq >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's not something for urgent projects, you can't have more than >>>>>>> four layers and no really small drill sizes but it sure is >>>>>>> cheap. Seems like this is run by Sparkfun. >>>>>> I've used it and it's fully in compliance with the old saying >>>>>> "Good, >>>>>> fast, or cheap. Pick two." No complaints at all about the board >>>>>> quality >>>>>> (two-sided) and the prices are certainly good. Actually, I >>>>>> received >>>>>> twice the number of boards that I had ordered at no extra cost, >>>>>> presumably because it was used to fill out the panel. They did >>>>>> take a >>>>>> while to be received, though! >>>>>> >>>>> Sure, it's only for projects along the lines of "I always wanted >>>>> to have ...", not for urgent client stuff. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>> Just got a quote from http://www.myropcb.com/ on a 2 layer board >>>> (5x6), $90 for 5 pcs. >>>> This is almost $2.50 a square inch. Except its for 5 and delivery >>>> is 2 weeks. >>>> Someone here had pointed them out. We had some 4 layer stuff done >>>> and the quality is excellent. >>>> >>> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS >>> boards which I avoid whenever possible. Most of my projects are >>> non-EU or exempt. >> >> Just have the boards gold plated. The ROHS HAL finishing is okay >> these >> days. There are also silver plated boards but these are slightly >> harder to solder. I spray those with flux the minute they arrive. >> > > That's what I did once. It cost extra but the boards sure looked posh, > like jewelry. The client was mighty impressed :-) > > Do they still do nickel-plating these days? Soon I'll have to design > one that needs an RF tight contact to an aluminum enclosure. In the > good old days one could have aluminum nickel-plated but lately all > sorts of environmetal laws threw all that a curve. > > -- They must do nickel plating plating prior to gold plating, otherwise the copper will migrate in to the gold and corrode it. I know of no other metal that would be substituted. Cheers
From: Spehro Pefhany on 16 Apr 2010 18:25
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:59:24 -0700, the renowned Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Spehro Pefhany wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 06:15:31 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks, sounds like a good deal. Unfortunately they seem to do RoHS >>> boards which I avoid whenever possible. Most of my projects are non-EU >>> or exempt. >> >> I like the electrolytic gold boards, which are available at no premium >> AFAIR, but not RoHS solder. > > >How's the pad adhesion on those, when some g-forces tug on a large SMT part? Have seen no problems with the electrolytic gold. Thicker gold, OTOH, I've seen issues, but that costs $$$. > >> ... The gold-plated boards will work in either >> case, and seem to last very well on the shelf, even if you don't take >> special precautions against like avoiding cardboard (sulphur). >> > >Oh, shelf life can reliably be reduced on those as well. Just pick up >chain smoking, but the real stuff such as Bull Durham :-) Yuk. I could dribble slightly used chewin' tobaccer on them too. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff(a)interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |