Climate of suspicion
in [Physics]
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From: Androcles on 24 Jan 2010 11:06 "oriel36" <kelleher.gerald(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:84e4bacb-dbb4-4c6d-970b-83d98c09f3b2(a)22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com... On Jan 24, 3:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 1/24/10 1:10 AM, oriel36 wrote: > > > > > The insistence on the 'sidereal time' value is at the epicenter of the > > climate mess for anybody who can model the dynamic of daily rotation > > directly from observation and at complete variance with all known > > historical and technical details which only support rotation at 15 > > degrees per hour can do just about anything,even model global climate > > through a minor atmospheric gas . > > Gerald, a sidereal day is nothing more than one complete rotation > of the earth. That statement has all the substance of telling me the Earth is flat ============================================ That statement has all the substance of telling everybody else you are totally insane.
From: oriel36 on 24 Jan 2010 14:11 On Jan 24, 3:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 1/24/10 1:10 AM, oriel36 wrote: > > > > > The insistence on the 'sidereal time' value is at the epicenter of the > > climate mess for anybody who can model the dynamic of daily rotation > > directly from observation and at complete variance with all known > > historical and technical details which only support rotation at 15 > > degrees per hour can do just about anything,even model global climate > > through a minor atmospheric gas . > > Gerald, a sidereal day is nothing more than one complete rotation > of the earth. Sam,do me a favor,John here accepts the coordinate system Albert is describing in chapter 4 - http://www.bartelby.net/173/4.html Now he keeps asking me the same question even though I have been clear in respect to the cause and effect of twilight variations using latitudinal speeds per hour,you don't have to accept the cause for latitudinal variations based on rotation once in 24 hours but that is the value I work from with historical and technical details in support.The problem with John is that is thinks he isn't a relativist like you and most of the other empiricists for chapter 4 of Albert's work turns into chapter 5 - http://www.bartelby.net/173/5.html That is just hilarious as far as I am concerned,a mathematician trying to sound like an astronomer but this is the stuff you believe and Androcles here can't follow the argument from the Ra/Dec 'law of inertia' framework of chapter 4 to the homocentricity of chapter 5.So,Androcles goes to bed tonight as a relativist and it is your job to remind him when he shows up on sci.relativity.
From: Sam Wormley on 24 Jan 2010 14:25 On 1/24/10 9:58 AM, oriel36 wrote: > On Jan 24, 3:41 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Gerald, a sidereal day is nothing more than one complete rotation >> of the earth. > > That statement has all the substance of telling me the Earth is flat > and if you can't provide the rotational speeds per hour at two nominal > latitudes,the equator and 60 degrees latitude in order to express > cause and effect for latitudinal twilight variations then what do I > care if you believe the Earth turns once in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 > seconds.I know exactly why that value is important to followers of > Newton and his predictive agenda but it is catastrophic for everyone > else,at least those with self-respect. I'm not sure how you got into this state of mind of your, Gerald, but it is a shame that you cannot enjoy what Newton contributed, and in particular, the fruits of modern physics and astronomy. If you took me up on my offer for us, together, to measure the rotation of the earth--when we got to one complete rotation in one sidereal day... would your brain explode?
From: oriel36 on 24 Jan 2010 14:41 On Jan 24, 7:25 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 1/24/10 9:58 AM, oriel36 wrote: > > > On Jan 24, 3:41 pm, Sam Wormley<sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Gerald, a sidereal day is nothing more than one complete rotation > >> of the earth. > > > That statement has all the substance of telling me the Earth is flat > > and if you can't provide the rotational speeds per hour at two nominal > > latitudes,the equator and 60 degrees latitude in order to express > > cause and effect for latitudinal twilight variations then what do I > > care if you believe the Earth turns once in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 > > seconds.I know exactly why that value is important to followers of > > Newton and his predictive agenda but it is catastrophic for everyone > > else,at least those with self-respect. > > I'm not sure how you got into this state of mind of your, Gerald, > but it is a shame that you cannot enjoy what Newton contributed, > and in particular, the fruits of modern physics and astronomy. > The guy couldn't read of misinterpreted Kepler's data for Mars by assuming,and all empiricists still do,that the observations are geocentric or what Newton called 'relative' space and motion,this refers to the crucial representation shown here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kepler_Mars_retrograde.jpg There is no such thing as geocentric data for all motions ,including that of Mars,are made from an orbitally moving Earth.Newton thinks if he plonks the Sun into the center of the diagram the retrogrades disappear hence the idea of going straight from observations into modelling without any interpretation or the slightest attention to the actual method of Kepler using planetary comparisons. All that junk about relative and absolute space and motion is the sound of Newton trying to bypass astronomical interpretation and attempting to use the Ra/Dec framework as a common denominator between his observations and modelling and I know too well you can't handle the elaborate scheme which tries to link planetary dynamics with experimental science through this gross distortion and Newton is quite open about it - "It is indeed a matter of great difficulty to discover, and effectually to distinguish, the true motion of particular bodies from the apparent; because the parts of that absolute space, in which those motions are performed, do by no means come under the observation of our senses. Yet the thing is not altogether desperate; for we have some arguments to guide us, partly from the apparent motions, which are the differences of the true motions; partly from the forces, which are the causes and effects of the true motion." Newton > If you took me up on my offer for us, together, to measure the > rotation of the earth--when we got to one complete rotation in > one sidereal day... would your brain explode? You can't explain planetary dynamics using timekeeping averages insofar as the very averages themselves of the 24 hour day and the 365/366 day calendar system are derived from the raw astronomical cycles which do not,I repeat,do not include the rotation of the constellations around Polaris.Nobody could be that obtuse and nobody with intelligence can live with this type of error as it loses all perspective in respect to the Earth's shape and rotational characteristics,information contained in the rotation of the Earth through 15 degrees in 1 hour.
From: I M on 24 Jan 2010 15:50
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:39:39 -0800 (PST), oriel36 <kelleher.gerald(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Jan 24, 1:24 am, "I M @ good guy" <I...(a)good.guy> wrote: > >> I didn't understand a work you said. > >It is a matter of simple arithmetic when you have a world globe in >front of you - > >http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/World_globe.jpg > >Turn the globe 15 degrees and the equatorial distance will be 1037.5 >miles of planetary geography,turn it 360 degrees and you get a full >equatorial circumference of 24,901 miles with each 15 degrees of >geographical separation equating to 1 hour time difference or 4 >minutes for each degree of rotation. > >In 10 years or so,I have yet to see one person in any forum affirm >this most basic astronomical fact,they actually resent it in their >quest to maintain the flat Earth reasoning of 'sidereal time',a >concept which contains no information that the Earth is round,rotating >and the dimensions which fit rotation at 15 degrees per hour.As >planetary dynamics is central to distinguishing global climate from >weather,it is safe to say that people know little about climate or >even what causes the seasons. Are you serious? The Earth not only rotates, but it moves, at what 50,000 MPH? |