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From: steveu on 29 Dec 2009 11:57 >dvsarwate wrote: >> On Dec 28, 10:59 am, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> averred: >> >>> I had one guy with a Ph.D. in some electrical branch of physics tell me >>> that the curved line on the schematic representation of a 'lytic was a >>> "mere visual embellishment". To prove that a polar capacitor was a >>> contradiction in terms, he wrote out the defining equation. >> >> >> Oh, shoot! You mean V = IR is all wrong and if I apply >> a gazillion volts to a 1-ohm resistor, I won't get a gazillion >> amps flowing through it? > >This fellow was a walking indictment of an educational system. He wasn't >stupid, just uneducated. Once we taught him how to use a soldering iron >(he figured out by observation which end to pick up) he learned quickly. > >The guy who told me that the power supply I has lent him didn't work >right was also college educated. The supply voltage was adjustable and >the thing had a current limit. His observation was that current and >voltage couldn't be controlled independently. There goes V = IR again! I was talking to a power electronics lecturer from a reasonably good university in the UK recently. He told me only two courses in their entire electronics degree program now have any practical content. For everything else, the only lab is Matlab. He said the causes were cost, a lack of enthusiasm by lecturers and most especially a health and safety environment that massively discourages anything practical. How can you prepare people for a productive life like that? Steve
From: brent on 29 Dec 2009 12:16 On Dec 29, 11:57 am, "steveu" <ste...(a)coppice.org> wrote: > >dvsarwate wrote: > >> On Dec 28, 10:59 am, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> averred: > > >>> I had one guy with a Ph.D. in some electrical branch of physics tell > me > >>> that the curved line on the schematic representation of a 'lytic was > a > >>> "mere visual embellishment". To prove that a polar capacitor was a > >>> contradiction in terms, he wrote out the defining equation. > > >> Oh, shoot! You mean V = IR is all wrong and if I apply > >> a gazillion volts to a 1-ohm resistor, I won't get a gazillion > >> amps flowing through it? > > >This fellow was a walking indictment of an educational system. He wasn't > >stupid, just uneducated. Once we taught him how to use a soldering iron > >(he figured out by observation which end to pick up) he learned quickly. > > >The guy who told me that the power supply I has lent him didn't work > >right was also college educated. The supply voltage was adjustable and > >the thing had a current limit. His observation was that current and > >voltage couldn't be controlled independently. There goes V = IR again! > > I was talking to a power electronics lecturer from a reasonably good > university in the UK recently. He told me only two courses in their entire > electronics degree program now have any practical content. For everything > else, the only lab is Matlab. He said the causes were cost, a lack of > enthusiasm by lecturers and most especially a health and safety environment > that massively discourages anything practical. How can you prepare people > for a productive life like that? > > Steve Hopefully the program will screen bright, competent from not as competent people. Then all may still work out.
From: steveu on 29 Dec 2009 12:19 >On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:26:28 -0800 (PST), Rune Allnor ><allnor(a)tele.ntnu.no> wrote: > >>On 29 Des, 07:55, HardySpicer <gyansor...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > Bullshit! I don't know what you mean by 'Bell lab type people', >>> > but I can assure you you only need highly skilled, dedicted >>> > people to do new stuff. The PhDs are the last people you want >>> > to have anywhere near, if you want an progress made. >>> >>> Well you may think that but look ta the history: Nyquist,Bode,Shannon >>> et al. >> >>OK, I take your word for that the people mentioned held the >>degree. Now - assuming that's correct - *when* and *why* did >>they obtain the degree? >> >>I can easily imagine somebody like Shannon being awarded the >>degree based on his achievements in comminications theory, >>*after* he published his papers. That breaks fundamentally >>with present practices where people first obtain the degree >>and only then are expected to justify it. > >Funny you say that. It would've been so easy to use that basic skill >called research, be a dedicted [sic] person and back up that easily >imaginable stuff. Let me try for you: >Shannon got two degrees from U of Michigan (EE and Math) then did a >PhD at MIT generating a thesis on algebraic genetics. He wrote the >communication paper after receiving his PhD degree. >The three inventors of the transistor all had PhDs (and worked at Bell >Labs) before they came up with it. Gallagher who discovered the LDPC >code (Kay says "turbo codes are LDPC codes) wrote it up in his PhD >theses. Viterbi also had his PhD before he came up with the algorithm >named after him. >So there you go. 3 or 4 major inventions/discoveries which are the >main carriers of almost all technology we use today (computers, cell >phones, other high speed communications) came from people who had a >PhD. I bet you didn't think that was easily imaginable. >By the way, isn't Dr. Ing. the same as a PhD? So at your company they >don't want any progress made I suppose ;-) I don't think anyone would realistically suggest that having a PhD precludes the possibility you are talented. The thing is we meet so many PhDs who are pretty much idiots. If those idiots can get through the program, and get their award, ability is clearly not a basic requirement. That's a really sad state of affairs. I wonder if it was always that way. Maybe in the 40s, when Shannon did his key work, or even in the 60s when Viterbi did his key work, things were different. Steve Steve
From: Jerry Avins on 29 Dec 2009 12:26 Randy Yates wrote: > Rune Allnor <allnor(a)tele.ntnu.no> writes: >> [...] "He who thinks his education has finished is not educated. He >> is finished." > > I have found that education exposes one's own ignorance. Isn't that its most important purpose? Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
From: Jerry Avins on 29 Dec 2009 12:30
steveu wrote: >> dvsarwate wrote: >>> On Dec 28, 10:59 am, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> averred: >>> >>>> I had one guy with a Ph.D. in some electrical branch of physics tell > me >>>> that the curved line on the schematic representation of a 'lytic was > a >>>> "mere visual embellishment". To prove that a polar capacitor was a >>>> contradiction in terms, he wrote out the defining equation. >>> >>> Oh, shoot! You mean V = IR is all wrong and if I apply >>> a gazillion volts to a 1-ohm resistor, I won't get a gazillion >>> amps flowing through it? >> This fellow was a walking indictment of an educational system. He wasn't > >> stupid, just uneducated. Once we taught him how to use a soldering iron >> (he figured out by observation which end to pick up) he learned quickly. >> >> The guy who told me that the power supply I has lent him didn't work >> right was also college educated. The supply voltage was adjustable and >> the thing had a current limit. His observation was that current and >> voltage couldn't be controlled independently. There goes V = IR again! > > I was talking to a power electronics lecturer from a reasonably good > university in the UK recently. He told me only two courses in their entire > electronics degree program now have any practical content. For everything > else, the only lab is Matlab. He said the causes were cost, a lack of > enthusiasm by lecturers and most especially a health and safety environment > that massively discourages anything practical. How can you prepare people > for a productive life like that? Wow! I remember the time in power lab that I over compounded a 200 HP motor. When it started to run away, I froze. Luckily, the breaker tripped before it slung its windings around the room. The noise of the arc restored me to consciousness, but too late. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ����������������������������������������������������������������������� |