Drive D XpPro 64 not needed with Win7 64bit
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From: Charlie Russel - MVP on 4 Nov 2009 16:13 Dominic is correct, the EasyBCD won't change the boot drive. But there's no particular need to do so. You can leave D: as the boot drive and simply delete the stuff you don't want that is on D:. Easy BCD will remove the XP boot option, so it won't try to dual boot. -- Charlie. http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel "RoseW" <wdmn(a)hurontel.on.ca> wrote in message news:OFtx1wYXKHA.408(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Charles Russel MVP wrote > > The way to fix this is to use the horrible MS command line utility, > Bcdedit. Or, be smarter and use one of the free graphical utilities that > does the same thing. I use EasyBCD (http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1). > > > On 2009-11-04 1:57 PM, Dominic Payer wrote: >> If you did not change any BIOS settings your drive D is almost certainly >> the boot drive, so formatting it will make your machine unbootable. >> >> The Windows 7 drive can be made the boot drive in the BIOS, after >> formatting D, by changing the BIOS boot order. You will then need to >> boot from the Windows 7 DVD and select Repair your computer, then >> Command prompt, and use the Bootrec command >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392. The commands you need to execute >> are Bootrec /FixMbr and Bootrec /FixBoot. > > Glad I asked here. > I had referred my computer store person to the EasyBCD utility which I had > found while doing research/prepare but perhaps I needed to be more > forceful rather than 'suggesting' <grin> > Bios settings were changed by the repair tech person but he was a bit > surprised when win7 wouldn't boot so he had to go back there and set up > the dual boot. > I'll take the advice and get the EasyBCD utility plus procede carefully. > If the whole scenario appears to be a minefield I can just lug the case > back to the shop and have a discussion <LOL!> > Rose > > > > >> On 04/11/2009 15:49, RoseW wrote: >>> Win7 Pro 64bit installed on its own drive and was labeled C. Everything >>> is fine. My Data files were on another drive (now named E) >>> XpPro 64bit was left intact on its own drive and there is a dual boot >>> startup. Actually, Win7 would not do its final bootup in the install >>> process unless this dual boot process was put in place. >>> >>> I have not gone back to the Xppro system through this first week so I'm >>> now wondering what glitches to avoid when removing the contents of XpPro >>> on Drive D I had asked at the shop where it was installed and the answer >>> was to reformat the drive d. >>> >>> Perhaps I do too much 'WHAT IF?" but I wonder what happens to that >>> initial start up screen for the choices of Win7 or Xp wouldn't there be >>> some edits done in the F8 setup screens? >>> >>> Rose >
From: R. C. White on 5 Nov 2009 00:19 Hi, Rose. A few caveats here... First, "drive" letter assignments are like shifting sands. What is Drive C: in WinXP might be Drive X: in WinXP - or vice versa. Be sure to use Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) to assign a name (label) to each volume so that you will always know which partition you are seeing. What is "WinXP (C:)" today might be "WinXP (D:)" tomorrow - but it is still the same volume. "Drive" in this context refers to a partition (volume) on the HDD, rather than the physical drive itself. When Win7 is installed by booting into an existing Windows installation and running Setup from that desktop, it will inherit the previously-assigned drive letter assignments. But when we boot from the Win7 DVD and run Setup, it doesn't know the previous assignments and will always assign C: to its own boot volume, even if that is the 3rd partition on the second HDD, and this will usually cause other letters to be reassigned. Second, terminology in this area is counterintuitive - and can be confusing. As often said, we BOOT from the SYSTEM volume and keep our operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume. These terms confuse many people, but their meanings predate Microsoft, I think, so we are stuck with them. For the definitions, see this KB article: Definitions for system volume and boot volume http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/314470/EN-US/ No matter how many Windows installations you have, or which versions of Windows, or where you install them, or how many physical disk drives are in the computer, the startup process always begins in the System Volume. This is typically (but not always) the first partition on the first physical drive in the computer. At power-on, the system first reads files in that System Volume, then branches to whichever partition on whichever HDD is the Boot Volume for the Windows version you have chosen for the current session. As KB314470 explains, the System Volume can also be the Boot Volume for one Windows installation. So, if your WinXP's Boot Volume shares the System Volume, reformatting that partition will wipe out the startup files along with WinXP's operating system files - and then the computer won't boot. Rather than reformat the WinXP volume, you can simply delete WinXP's \Windows folder - the whole folder tree, including all subfolders and files in it. You can do this from Win7 without worry: No operating system will let you delete its own boot folder. You can't delete WinXP's boot folder while running WinXP, but to Win7, that folder is "just another folder" and can be wiped out easily. Then you can use BCDEdit or a third-party program to remove WinXP from the startup menu, and you can delete WinXP's startup files (NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) in the System Volume; they won't be used anymore, but they take up less than 1 MB of space, so you can just leave them if you like. RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX rc(a)grandecom.net Microsoft Windows MVP Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64 "RoseW" <wdmn(a)hurontel.on.ca> wrote in message news:uIArbZWXKHA.4780(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Win7 Pro 64bit installed on its own drive and was labeled C. Everything is > fine. My Data files were on another drive (now named E) > XpPro 64bit was left intact on its own drive and there is a dual boot > startup. Actually, Win7 would not do its final bootup in the install > process unless this dual boot process was put in place. > > I have not gone back to the Xppro system through this first week so I'm > now wondering what glitches to avoid when removing the contents of XpPro > on Drive D I had asked at the shop where it was installed and the answer > was to reformat the drive d. > > Perhaps I do too much 'WHAT IF?" but I wonder what happens to that initial > start up screen for the choices of Win7 or Xp wouldn't there be some edits > done in the F8 setup screens? > > Rose
From: RoseW on 5 Nov 2009 17:19 On 2009-11-05 12:19 AM, R. C. White wrote: > Hi, Rose. > > A few caveats here... > > First, "drive" letter assignments are like shifting sands. What is Drive > C: in WinXP might be Drive X: in WinXP - or vice versa. Be sure to use > Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) to assign a name (label) to each volume > so that you will always know which partition you are seeing. What is > "WinXP (C:)" today might be "WinXP (D:)" tomorrow - but it is still the > same volume. "Drive" in this context refers to a partition (volume) on > the HDD, rather than the physical drive itself. When Win7 is installed > by booting into an existing Windows installation and running Setup from > that desktop, it will inherit the previously-assigned drive letter > assignments. But when we boot from the Win7 DVD and run Setup, it > doesn't know the previous assignments and will always assign C: to its > own boot volume, even if that is the 3rd partition on the second HDD, > and this will usually cause other letters to be reassigned. > > Second, terminology in this area is counterintuitive - and can be > confusing. As often said, we BOOT from the SYSTEM volume and keep our > operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume. These terms confuse many > people, but their meanings predate Microsoft, I think, so we are stuck > with them. For the definitions, see this KB article: > Definitions for system volume and boot volume > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/314470/EN-US/ > > No matter how many Windows installations you have, or which versions of > Windows, or where you install them, or how many physical disk drives are > in the computer, the startup process always begins in the System Volume. > This is typically (but not always) the first partition on the first > physical drive in the computer. At power-on, the system first reads > files in that System Volume, then branches to whichever partition on > whichever HDD is the Boot Volume for the Windows version you have chosen > for the current session. As KB314470 explains, the System Volume can > also be the Boot Volume for one Windows installation. So, if your > WinXP's Boot Volume shares the System Volume, reformatting that > partition will wipe out the startup files along with WinXP's operating > system files - and then the computer won't boot. > > Rather than reformat the WinXP volume, you can simply delete WinXP's > \Windows folder - the whole folder tree, including all subfolders and > files in it. You can do this from Win7 without worry: No operating > system will let you delete its own boot folder. You can't delete WinXP's > boot folder while running WinXP, but to Win7, that folder is "just > another folder" and can be wiped out easily. Then you can use BCDEdit or > a third-party program to remove WinXP from the startup menu, and you can > delete WinXP's startup files (NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) in the > System Volume; they won't be used anymore, but they take up less than 1 > MB of space, so you can just leave them if you like. > > RC Wow....very good explanation plus a reasonable 'to do' list. I stood alongside as the technician did the allocation of drives (C,D,E, F) and the drive name labelling.He tends to put long names including unnecessary words. C was partitioned to have C and F. Win7 is on the C which is a new 1T size drive. The other two are 400s. I have an 'intuition' that the System Volume is on Drive D (old xp) Your last paragraph suits me. Rose
From: R. C. White on 5 Nov 2009 20:38 Hi, Rose. > C was partitioned to have C and F. NO! You mean that Disk 0 was partitioned to C: and F:. Drive C: is NOT the whole physical hard disk drive. It is only a PARTITION - although we usually call it a "drive" and assign it a "drive letter". That's one of the terminology problems that I often complain about. My understanding is that you have 2 HDDs, which Disk Management will refer to as Disk 0 and Disk 1. Each disk can be partitioned into one or more partitions, also often referred to as "drives" - or as "volumes", to try to cut down on the confusion. In computer terminology, common words like "boot" and "drive" have more meanings than "right" and "left"; we have to look to the context to determine the meaning in any particular situation. (Remember The Long Long Trailer, an ancient movie with Desi and Lucy? He was driving while she navigated. She said, "Turn right here", so he made a hard right turn. She then said, "No! I meant turn right here, LEFT!" Well, it was funny in the movie, but it's not so humorous when we are trying to figure out if a "drive" means the whole disk or just a partition on the disk.) It's easy to write so that we can be understood. It's much harder - and often takes a lot more words - to explain things so that we cannot be MISunderstood. > Win7 is on the C which is a new 1T size drive. Yes. As I said, when we install Win7 (or Vista) by booting from its DVD, Setup will assign C: to its own boot volume, no matter where that volume is, even if it is on a disk other than Disk 0. > The other two are 400s. It is important to know which of your 3 HDD is Disk 0, Disk 1 and Disk 2. Disk Management will tell you. > I have an 'intuition' that the System Volume is on Drive D (old xp) Your intuition is probably right! That is, it's Drive D: when you are booted into Win7. But if you boot into WinXP again, you probably will find that WinXP still refers to that volume as Drive C:. When you installed Win7 from its DVD and it assigned C: to its own boot volume on Disk 1 (your 1 TB HDD), it could no longer use C: for any other volume. So it assigned D: to the System Volume - which is still the first partition on Disk 0, one of your 400 GB HDDs. (I'm guessing this from what you've said; let's see how good MY intuition is.) Setup probably also changed the letter for what WinXP calls Drive F:, but you can easily change that by using Disk Management. Win7 can't read WinXP's Registry - and WinXP can't read Win7's. It's not a matter of different formats; NO OS can see another OS's drive letter assignments. My computer has several installations of Win7 (64-bit, 32-bit, old betas); the one I'm running now can't see into any of the other Win7 Registries. That's why having volume LABELS is so important, so that we always know which volume we are looking at, no matter what drive letter it thinks it has today. You're making progress. By tomorrow, you should have everything running smoothly - Win7 all the way! Booting from the System Volume on Disk 0, which will load Win7 from Disk 1. ;<) RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX rc(a)grandecom.net Microsoft Windows MVP Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64 "RoseW" <wdmn(a)hurontel.on.ca> wrote in message news:uFPXHYmXKHA.1232(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > On 2009-11-05 12:19 AM, R. C. White wrote: >> Hi, Rose. >> >> A few caveats here... >> >> First, "drive" letter assignments are like shifting sands. What is Drive >> C: in WinXP might be Drive X: in WinXP - or vice versa. Be sure to use >> Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) to assign a name (label) to each volume >> so that you will always know which partition you are seeing. What is >> "WinXP (C:)" today might be "WinXP (D:)" tomorrow - but it is still the >> same volume. "Drive" in this context refers to a partition (volume) on >> the HDD, rather than the physical drive itself. When Win7 is installed >> by booting into an existing Windows installation and running Setup from >> that desktop, it will inherit the previously-assigned drive letter >> assignments. But when we boot from the Win7 DVD and run Setup, it >> doesn't know the previous assignments and will always assign C: to its >> own boot volume, even if that is the 3rd partition on the second HDD, >> and this will usually cause other letters to be reassigned. >> >> Second, terminology in this area is counterintuitive - and can be >> confusing. As often said, we BOOT from the SYSTEM volume and keep our >> operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume. These terms confuse many >> people, but their meanings predate Microsoft, I think, so we are stuck >> with them. For the definitions, see this KB article: >> Definitions for system volume and boot volume >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/314470/EN-US/ >> >> No matter how many Windows installations you have, or which versions of >> Windows, or where you install them, or how many physical disk drives are >> in the computer, the startup process always begins in the System Volume. >> This is typically (but not always) the first partition on the first >> physical drive in the computer. At power-on, the system first reads >> files in that System Volume, then branches to whichever partition on >> whichever HDD is the Boot Volume for the Windows version you have chosen >> for the current session. As KB314470 explains, the System Volume can >> also be the Boot Volume for one Windows installation. So, if your >> WinXP's Boot Volume shares the System Volume, reformatting that >> partition will wipe out the startup files along with WinXP's operating >> system files - and then the computer won't boot. >> >> Rather than reformat the WinXP volume, you can simply delete WinXP's >> \Windows folder - the whole folder tree, including all subfolders and >> files in it. You can do this from Win7 without worry: No operating >> system will let you delete its own boot folder. You can't delete WinXP's >> boot folder while running WinXP, but to Win7, that folder is "just >> another folder" and can be wiped out easily. Then you can use BCDEdit or >> a third-party program to remove WinXP from the startup menu, and you can >> delete WinXP's startup files (NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) in the >> System Volume; they won't be used anymore, but they take up less than 1 >> MB of space, so you can just leave them if you like. >> >> RC > Wow....very good explanation plus a reasonable 'to do' list. > I stood alongside as the technician did the allocation of drives (C,D,E, > F) and the drive name labelling.He tends to put long names including > unnecessary words. C was partitioned to have C and F. Win7 is on the C > which is a new 1T size drive. The other two are 400s. > I have an 'intuition' that the System Volume is on Drive D (old xp) > > Your last paragraph suits me. > > Rose
From: John Barnes on 6 Nov 2009 15:05
Depending on how Win7 is installed it can create a 100mb system partition labeled 'system required' on which it installs the boot files and Partition C is the boot drive when booting into Win7. The system partition is not given a drive letter. "R. C. White" <rc(a)grandecom.net> wrote in message news:OjD36GoXKHA.1268(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Hi, Rose. > >> C was partitioned to have C and F. > > NO! You mean that Disk 0 was partitioned to C: and F:. > > Drive C: is NOT the whole physical hard disk drive. It is only a > PARTITION - although we usually call it a "drive" and assign it a "drive > letter". That's one of the terminology problems that I often complain > about. > > My understanding is that you have 2 HDDs, which Disk Management will refer > to as Disk 0 and Disk 1. Each disk can be partitioned into one or more > partitions, also often referred to as "drives" - or as "volumes", to try > to cut down on the confusion. > > In computer terminology, common words like "boot" and "drive" have more > meanings than "right" and "left"; we have to look to the context to > determine the meaning in any particular situation. (Remember The Long > Long Trailer, an ancient movie with Desi and Lucy? He was driving while > she navigated. She said, "Turn right here", so he made a hard right turn. > She then said, "No! I meant turn right here, LEFT!" Well, it was funny > in the movie, but it's not so humorous when we are trying to figure out if > a "drive" means the whole disk or just a partition on the disk.) It's > easy to write so that we can be understood. It's much harder - and often > takes a lot more words - to explain things so that we cannot be > MISunderstood. > >> Win7 is on the C which is a new 1T size drive. > > Yes. As I said, when we install Win7 (or Vista) by booting from its DVD, > Setup will assign C: to its own boot volume, no matter where that volume > is, even if it is on a disk other than Disk 0. > >> The other two are 400s. > > It is important to know which of your 3 HDD is Disk 0, Disk 1 and Disk 2. > Disk Management will tell you. > >> I have an 'intuition' that the System Volume is on Drive D (old xp) > > Your intuition is probably right! That is, it's Drive D: when you are > booted into Win7. But if you boot into WinXP again, you probably will > find that WinXP still refers to that volume as Drive C:. > > When you installed Win7 from its DVD and it assigned C: to its own boot > volume on Disk 1 (your 1 TB HDD), it could no longer use C: for any other > volume. So it assigned D: to the System Volume - which is still the first > partition on Disk 0, one of your 400 GB HDDs. (I'm guessing this from > what you've said; let's see how good MY intuition is.) Setup probably > also changed the letter for what WinXP calls Drive F:, but you can easily > change that by using Disk Management. > > Win7 can't read WinXP's Registry - and WinXP can't read Win7's. It's not > a matter of different formats; NO OS can see another OS's drive letter > assignments. My computer has several installations of Win7 (64-bit, > 32-bit, old betas); the one I'm running now can't see into any of the > other Win7 Registries. That's why having volume LABELS is so important, > so that we always know which volume we are looking at, no matter what > drive letter it thinks it has today. > > You're making progress. By tomorrow, you should have everything running > smoothly - Win7 all the way! Booting from the System Volume on Disk 0, > which will load Win7 from Disk 1. ;<) > > RC > -- > R. C. White, CPA > San Marcos, TX > rc(a)grandecom.net > Microsoft Windows MVP > Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64 > > "RoseW" <wdmn(a)hurontel.on.ca> wrote in message > news:uFPXHYmXKHA.1232(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> On 2009-11-05 12:19 AM, R. C. White wrote: >>> Hi, Rose. >>> >>> A few caveats here... >>> >>> First, "drive" letter assignments are like shifting sands. What is Drive >>> C: in WinXP might be Drive X: in WinXP - or vice versa. Be sure to use >>> Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc) to assign a name (label) to each volume >>> so that you will always know which partition you are seeing. What is >>> "WinXP (C:)" today might be "WinXP (D:)" tomorrow - but it is still the >>> same volume. "Drive" in this context refers to a partition (volume) on >>> the HDD, rather than the physical drive itself. When Win7 is installed >>> by booting into an existing Windows installation and running Setup from >>> that desktop, it will inherit the previously-assigned drive letter >>> assignments. But when we boot from the Win7 DVD and run Setup, it >>> doesn't know the previous assignments and will always assign C: to its >>> own boot volume, even if that is the 3rd partition on the second HDD, >>> and this will usually cause other letters to be reassigned. >>> >>> Second, terminology in this area is counterintuitive - and can be >>> confusing. As often said, we BOOT from the SYSTEM volume and keep our >>> operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume. These terms confuse many >>> people, but their meanings predate Microsoft, I think, so we are stuck >>> with them. For the definitions, see this KB article: >>> Definitions for system volume and boot volume >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/314470/EN-US/ >>> >>> No matter how many Windows installations you have, or which versions of >>> Windows, or where you install them, or how many physical disk drives are >>> in the computer, the startup process always begins in the System Volume. >>> This is typically (but not always) the first partition on the first >>> physical drive in the computer. At power-on, the system first reads >>> files in that System Volume, then branches to whichever partition on >>> whichever HDD is the Boot Volume for the Windows version you have chosen >>> for the current session. As KB314470 explains, the System Volume can >>> also be the Boot Volume for one Windows installation. So, if your >>> WinXP's Boot Volume shares the System Volume, reformatting that >>> partition will wipe out the startup files along with WinXP's operating >>> system files - and then the computer won't boot. >>> >>> Rather than reformat the WinXP volume, you can simply delete WinXP's >>> \Windows folder - the whole folder tree, including all subfolders and >>> files in it. You can do this from Win7 without worry: No operating >>> system will let you delete its own boot folder. You can't delete WinXP's >>> boot folder while running WinXP, but to Win7, that folder is "just >>> another folder" and can be wiped out easily. Then you can use BCDEdit or >>> a third-party program to remove WinXP from the startup menu, and you can >>> delete WinXP's startup files (NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) in the >>> System Volume; they won't be used anymore, but they take up less than 1 >>> MB of space, so you can just leave them if you like. >>> >>> RC >> Wow....very good explanation plus a reasonable 'to do' list. >> I stood alongside as the technician did the allocation of drives (C,D,E, >> F) and the drive name labelling.He tends to put long names including >> unnecessary words. C was partitioned to have C and F. Win7 is on the C >> which is a new 1T size drive. The other two are 400s. >> I have an 'intuition' that the System Volume is on Drive D (old xp) >> >> Your last paragraph suits me. >> >> Rose > |