Experiment to test mutual time dilation
in [Physics]
|
Prev: Quantum memory may topple Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
Next: Does a flat observable universe imply an infinite universe?
From: kenseto on 2 Aug 2010 13:46 A and B are in relative motion. 1. A sends a TV picture of his clock to B. 2. B sends a TV picture of his clock to A. 3. A measures the rate of passage of time of his clock and compare it to the rate of passage of time on the TV clock of B and call this ratio as Tvb/Ta. 4. B measures the rate of passage of time of his clock and compare it to the rate of passage of time on the TV clock of A and call this ratio as Tva/Tb. Conclusions: 1. If Tvb/Ta=Tva/Tb Mutual time dilation is confirmed. 2. If Tvb/Ta is not equal to Tva/Tb. Mutual time dilation is refuted. I am betting on #2. BTW, my bet is supported by the GPS clock compared to the ground clock. The SR effect on the GPS clock is 7us/day running slow compared to the ground clock. From the GPS point of view the SR effect on the ground clock is NOT 7us/day running slow compared to the GPS clock. In fact it is ~7us/day running fast. Ken Seto
From: Michael Moroney on 2 Aug 2010 14:44 kenseto <kenseto(a)erinet.com> writes: >Conclusions: >1. If Tvb/Ta=Tva/Tb >Mutual time dilation is confirmed. >2. If Tvb/Ta is not equal to Tva/Tb. >Mutual time dilation is refuted. >I am betting on #2. >BTW, my bet is supported by the GPS clock compared to the ground >clock. The SR effect on the GPS clock is 7us/day running slow >compared >to the ground clock. >From the GPS point of view the SR effect on the ground clock is NOT >7us/day running slow compared to the GPS clock. In fact it is ~7us/day >running fast. You state this as if it were a proven fact. However, despite asking several times, you have never been able to supply any proof. If anything, it's circular logic. In some posts, you claim that if A sees B's clock as running slow, then B will see A's clock as running fast. Then, based on this claim, you predict what will happen for the GPS (ignoring for the moment the GPS is actually a GR problem, not SR). Then in other posts, like this one, you take your GPS prediction as if it was a proven fact to "prove" your claim about the two moving clock. Sorry, but circular logic like this has no place in science.
From: dlzc on 2 Aug 2010 14:49 Dear kenseto: On Aug 2, 10:46 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > A and B are in relative motion. > 1. A sends a TV picture of his clock to B. > 2. B sends a TV picture of his clock to A. > 3. A measures the rate of passage of time of > his clock and compare it to the rate of > passage of time on the TV clock of B and call > this ratio as Tvb/Ta. > 4. B measures the rate of passage of time of > his clock and compare it to the rate of > passage of time on the TV clock of A and > call this ratio as Tva/Tb. > > Conclusions: > 1. If Tvb/Ta=Tva/Tb > Mutual time dilation is confirmed. > > 2. If Tvb/Ta is not equal to Tva/Tb. > Mutual time dilation is refuted. > > I am betting on #2. > BTW, my bet is supported by the GPS clock > compared to the ground clock. The SR effect > on the GPS clock is 7us/day running slow > compared to the ground clock. When is the ground clock not below the GPS clock? How does the GPS clock see the ground clock moving? Is it as fast as the GPS clock sees itself moving? > From the GPS point of view the SR effect on > the ground clock is NOT 7us/day running slow > compared to the GPS clock. In fact it is > ~7us/day running fast. I see the hamster running as fast as it can, getting your brain to catch up to your fingers. Too bad you hit "post" before it caught up. David A. Smith
From: Sam Wormley on 2 Aug 2010 16:10 On 8/2/10 12:46 PM, kenseto wrote: > A and B are in relative motion. > 1. A sends a TV picture of his clock to B. > 2. B sends a TV picture of his clock to A. > 3. A measures the rate of passage of time of his clock and compare it > to the rate of passage of time on the TV clock of B and call this > ratio as Tvb/Ta. > 4. B measures the rate of passage of time of his clock and compare it > to the rate of passage of time on the TV clock of A and call this > ratio as Tva/Tb. > > Conclusions: > 1. If Tvb/Ta=Tva/Tb > Mutual time dilation is confirmed. > > 2. If Tvb/Ta is not equal to Tva/Tb. > Mutual time dilation is refuted. > > I am betting on #2. > BTW, my bet is supported by the GPS clock compared to the ground > clock. The SR effect on the GPS clock is 7us/day running slow > compared > to the ground clock. > From the GPS point of view the SR effect on the ground clock is NOT > 7us/day running slow compared to the GPS clock. In fact it is ~7us/day > running fast. > > > Ken Seto Seto FAILS to understand that comparing GPS satellite clocks and GPS ground clocks requires general relativity to correctly predict the differences from either perspective. See: Relativistic Effects on Satellite Clocks http://relativity.livingreviews.org/open?pubNo=lrr-2003-1&page=node5.html
From: Sam Wormley on 2 Aug 2010 16:16
On 8/2/10 12:46 PM, kenseto wrote: > A and B are in relative motion. > 1. A sends a TV picture of his clock to B. > 2. B sends a TV picture of his clock to A. > 3. A measures the rate of passage of time of his clock and compare it > to the rate of passage of time on the TV clock of B and call this > ratio as Tvb/Ta. > 4. B measures the rate of passage of time of his clock and compare it > to the rate of passage of time on the TV clock of A and call this > ratio as Tva/Tb. Take, for example two astronaut with clocks in intergalactic space, where we can ignore gravitational effects. We will also ignore the effects of Doppler shift here. A and B are observers with identical clocks. That is A and B's clocks ticked synchronously when they were together. ∆t represent a time interval between tick of the clocks. Special relativity predicts that observer A will measure that ∆t_B' = γ ∆t_B where ∆t represent a time interval, v is the relative velocity between A and B, and γ = 1/√(1-v^2/c^2) . Furthermore, special relativity predicts that observer B will measure that ∆t_A' = γ ∆t_A Neither measure the other's clock running fast. But each measures the other's clock running slow. Here's the part Seto's brain can't seem to handle. Seto can be observer A or Seto can be observer B. Seto cannot be both simultaneously. There is no contradiction. Special Relativity correctly predicts the observation. Physics FAQ: What is the experimental basis of special relativity? http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html |