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From: John McWilliams on 20 Jan 2010 00:19
On 1/19/10 PDT 6:13 PM, Richard Maine wrote:
> <VAXman-(a)SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, sill nobody has picked up on the fact that I was poking fun at the
>> OP's use of "lightning" instead of "lighting".
>
> Saw that. Was amused, but that part didn't seem worth commenting further
> on.
>
/Me too/.....
From: Richard Maine on 21 Jan 2010 03:18
Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> You must not be googling 'CFL mercury' as I said. I just tried again and
> it's still the very top result.

You appear to have an unjustified confidence in the universality of
exact Google search results. Whereas you can expect similar results at
different times, the exact results can and do vary with many things. For
but one of many factors, it is quite plausible that it will be different
when you are comming from NZ than from the US. There are other factors
as well. I also did exactly the google that you suggested and also got
the same npr article that VAXMan did. No, I don't think him and I made
identical errors; I'd say instead that yourassumption that other people
will see exactly the same result from the sam esearch is wrong.

(In fact, since my wife has a small business that gets clients from
google, I'm quite used to checking and seeing our busines sometimes show
at the top of a particular search, and other times not, even though the
search is identical.)

So saying to get the top result, or even more so, saying to use the
"feeling lucky" option, which doesn't even show you other results, is
not a robust way to describe something.

Your energystar article is also in the list, but it isn't first. Its the
4th one for me (after the npr article, a treehugger one, and the snopes
article previously cited). By the way, the same energystar page is also
one of the links on the snopes page.

--
Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
From: Jamie Kahn Genet on 21 Jan 2010 05:38
Richard Maine <nospam(a)see.signature> wrote:

> Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
>
> > You must not be googling 'CFL mercury' as I said. I just tried again and
> > it's still the very top result.
>
> You appear to have an unjustified confidence in the universality of
> exact Google search results. Whereas you can expect similar results at
> different times, the exact results can and do vary with many things. For
> but one of many factors, it is quite plausible that it will be different
> when you are comming from NZ than from the US. There are other factors
> as well. I also did exactly the google that you suggested and also got
> the same npr article that VAXMan did. No, I don't think him and I made
> identical errors; I'd say instead that yourassumption that other people
> will see exactly the same result from the sam esearch is wrong.
>
> (In fact, since my wife has a small business that gets clients from
> google, I'm quite used to checking and seeing our busines sometimes show
> at the top of a particular search, and other times not, even though the
> search is identical.)
>
> So saying to get the top result, or even more so, saying to use the
> "feeling lucky" option, which doesn't even show you other results, is
> not a robust way to describe something.
>
> Your energystar article is also in the list, but it isn't first. Its the
> 4th one for me (after the npr article, a treehugger one, and the snopes
> article previously cited). By the way, the same energystar page is also
> one of the links on the snopes page.

Well, ok. I'll concede that google may not always give exactly the same
results (though it must be extremely rare because this is a first for
me. Could it be that google is personalising some results if you're
signed into your google account?) :-) Nevertheless it was not hard info
to find, nor other supporting results that are more than just conspiracy
FUD. It pisses me off to no end when I see the same old FUD repeated ad
infinitum without research to back it up.

In my own personal experience I've had CFLs that last years. Others that
have only lasted months. One IIRC that lasted a mere week. But those
were no more common than defective tungsten filament lightbulbs that
burned out earlier than they should have. More noticeable perhaps given
one expects CFLs to last longer, but no more than I'd expect given I buy
them - along with most other groceries and household consumables - only
when they're on sale or at a bargain price. Computers and important
consumables like photo quality ink get more consideration when it comes
to price vs quality. Not lightbulbs. Or least not given the vast
majority of cheap CFLs I buy last a long time and cost a lot less in the
long term.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
From: JF Mezei on 21 Jan 2010 06:15
Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

> Well, ok. I'll concede that google may not always give exactly the same
> results (though it must be extremely rare because this is a first for
> me.

It is extremely frequent that it doesn't give the same results. Remember
that some pay to be listed at the top and if they pay for various
regions (based on user's IP), then the top results may appear to be the
same. But if the topic is one that is regional, it could vary tremendously.

Also, don't discount the fact that parts of the Google database may be
down at any point in time, giving you partial/different results.

People don't notice this because you always get a reply with some
results, but you never know if the search yielded a full database serach
or a partial one because some systems are down in the backend.

Google also highly personalises based on cookies and your ip address.
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