Help choose a PIC programmer.
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From: David L. Jones on 24 Feb 2010 20:59 Robert Roland wrote: > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:28:40 -0800 (PST), coldfeet > <sixcoldfeet(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I am thinking about buying or building a PIC programmer and would >> appreciate some advice in choosing one. > > If you want to build, take a look at the Wisp648: > http://www.voti.nl/wisp648/index.html. The PCB is not available for > free, but you can buy a kit or lay out the board yourself and buy a > pre-programmed PIC. > > This programmer handles a lot of different PICs, but only 5V ones. It > works with both Windows and Linux. > >> I've never laid hands on one >> so am I not sure what to look for. > > You absolutely want a programmer that supports ICSP (In-Circuit Serial > Programming). Moving the chip back and forth between the project and > the programmer gets old very fast. > >> I am a hobbyist and would like to program the occasional IC just to >> simplify my circuit building. It would be nice to program a wide >> variety if chips but in reality I would probably just pick a few that >> I was comfortable with and stick to them. > > I have the PicKit3, and I am very pleased. In addition to programming > almost all PICs, it also has basic debugging capabilities. The > debugger is more useful than you'd expect. > >> My programming skills >> aren't all that great. I'm comfortable with editing VB script or >> using graphical programs. If I have to I could probably learn basic >> or c. > > I have not been able to find any decent, free Basic or C compilers for > the PICs. Err, try the Microchip website. They have free downloadable C compilers for all their ranges, they are just crippled in terms of code size optimisations, but otherwise are fully functional. I believe there are (legal) ways around the crippling on the GCC compilers. HiTech or GCC flavours: http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en534868&page=wwwCompilers Dave. -- ================================================ Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast: http://www.eevblog.com
From: IanM on 25 Feb 2010 05:21 coldfeet wrote: > Hey, thanks for all the info. Yes, I did mean any micro controller. > I guess PIC was the first one I learned about. The Arduino looks > pretty cool but I am leaning towards the PICkit 2. I may have to > pick up the Arduino just to play with. The PICaxe also looks good > but I think I would have a hard time deciding what exactly to buy. > The PICkit 2 looks like it comes in an "everything I need" package. > > Also, special thanks to David for the vblogs even though it was 90% > rant. It helps to see someone hold up the product and talk about it. > It would have been really great if you had demonstrated the products > for us. I know it would probably seem inane but seeing someone plug > one in, write a short program, display the interface, etc. would > probably answer a lot of questions that I hadn't thought to ask. The PICkit 2 'does what it says on the box', reliably programming the vast majority of PIC10Fxxx, PIC12Fxxx, PIC16Fxxx, PIC18Fxxx and PIC24Fxxx parts. It also supports basic debugging (register inspection, single step and single hardware breakpoint) on all parts that have native silicon support for ICD (a few PIC16, nearly all PIC18 and Pic24) Compatible Debug 'headers' are available for most of the rest. A few of the latest parts are not supported, but there is supposed to be a final update later this year and the firmware, stand-alone GUI and command line utility are open source. The PICkit 3 is supposed to be the successor to the PICkit 2. It is still very buggy and I would NOT consider buying it as my sole programmer yet. When it is fully debugged it will probably be faster than a PICKit 2 and may have better features, but at the moment there is a strong suspicion it has serious hardware problems and the software lacks many features PICkit 2 users expect and is not exactly stable. With either you need some way of connecting to your chosen PIC. You can 'roll your own' ICSP hook-up or buy a kit that includes a demo/development board. Avoid the 'PICkit 2 Starter Kit' DV164120 as the supplied 'Low Pin Count Demo Board' for 8/14/20 pin mid-range PICs does NOT support any PIC that has built-in debugging support. The bundled PICkit 2 is of course ICD capable but the complete kit doesn't get you there. There are 18 pin and 28 pin DIP demo boards available that you can plug a debug capable PIC straight into but they aren't bundled as a kit and dont have a nice set of tutorials. The 'PICkit 2 Debug Express' DV164121 is usable for debugging 'out the box' but the demo board has a soldered on surface mount PIC16F887, with a surface mount prototyping area and all thru-hole pads for off board connections at 2mm pitch :-( so can be a pain to hook up to your own breadboarded experimental circuits. There is one other kit that rarely shows up if you are looking for a PICkit 2: the 'PICDEM Lab Development Kit' DM163035. From Microchip's site: > The PICDEM� Lab Development Kit is designed to provide a > comprehensive development and learning platform for Microchip's > FLASH-based 6-, 8-, 14-, 18- and 20-pin 8-bit PIC� microcontrollers. > > Geared toward first-time PIC� microcontroller users and students, the > PICDEM� Lab Development Kit is supplied with five of our most > popular 8-bit PIC� microcontrollers and a host of discrete components > to create instructive applications. > > Expansion headers provide complete access/connectivity to all pins on > the connected PIC� microcontrollers and all mounted components. > > A solderless prototyping block is included for quick exploration of > the application examples described in the �hands-on� labs included in > the user�s guide. These labs provide an intuitive introduction to > using common peripherals and include useful application examples, > from lighting an LED to some basic mixed signal applications using > the free HI-TECH C� PRO for the PIC10/12/16 MCU Family Lite Mode > Compiler. > > Alternately, a companion guide featuring the free version of Matrix > Multimedia�s Flowcode V3 Visual Programming Environment (VPE) provides > a flowchart-based method of implementing a series of introductory > labs. It is bundled with a PICkit 2. One of the supplied PICs is debug capable. The solderless breadboard area is large enough to take 28 or 40 pin PICs jumpered to the programming signals from one of the sockets so it will do to program all DIP pics the PICKit 2 supports. You should also check out this link: <http://www.auelectronics.com/Hardware-MiniLab.htm> A PICkit 2 (or 3) compatible demo board with a ZIF socket for programming/testing all DIP PICs that the PICkit 2 supports up to 40 pins, on board regulators, 6 LEDS and I2C/SSP level translators. (It is definitely superior to Microchip's ZIF socket adapter for the ICD series which itself requires an adaptor to connect to a PICkit 2 or 3_ They also make an enhanced PICkit 2 clone with a very good reputation. -- Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL:
From: Robert Roland on 25 Feb 2010 05:30 On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:59:05 +1100, "David L. Jones" <altzone(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I have not been able to find any decent, free Basic or C compilers for >> the PICs. > >Err, try the Microchip website. >They have free downloadable C compilers for all their ranges, they are just >crippled in terms of code size optimisations, but otherwise are fully >functional. In my book, if it's intentionally crippled, it automatically disqualifies the product as "decent". >I believe there are (legal) ways around the crippling on the GCC compilers. I seem to remember they were open source, and all you had to do was to make a small modification to the code and then compile it. I don't have the knowledge to do so, and as long as I have JAL, I don't have any incentive to try and figure it out. -- RoRo
From: Somebody on 25 Feb 2010 05:46 "IanM" <look.in.my.sig(a)totally.invalid> wrote in message news:hm5is1$qd2$1(a)energise.enta.net... > > The PICkit 2 'does what it says on the box', reliably programming the > vast majority of PIC10Fxxx, PIC12Fxxx, PIC16Fxxx, PIC18Fxxx and > PIC24Fxxx parts. It also supports basic debugging (register inspection, > single step and single hardware breakpoint) on all parts that have > native silicon support for ICD (a few PIC16, nearly all PIC18 and Pic24) Could you expand on ICD? Does this mean that there are built-in debug registers in the chip? I had naively assumed that the single step and breakpoint facility were achieved in some way by reprogramming the Flash memory on-the-fly, relying on the fact that even the 100,000 rewrite limit would not be exceeded.
From: Martin Brown on 25 Feb 2010 06:14
Jan Panteltje wrote: > On a sunny day (Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:16:55 +0000) it happened Martin Brown > <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in > <RM8hn.10115$ND2.304(a)newsfe05.iad>: > >> Jan Panteltje wrote: >>> On a cloudy miserable winter ice day "David L. Jokes" wrote: >>> >>>> Get the PICkit2 or PICkit3, don't touch the build-it-yourself programmers, >>>> they are not worth the trouble. >> For a hobbyist I'd have thought a kit might be ideal. The suggestion >> below is a bit too minimalist and unsafe for my liking. YMMV >>> HEY IDIOT YOU ONLY NEED 1 RESISTOR: >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~davesullins/software/pic18f.html >> Provided that you don't mind the risk of damage to your parallel port. >> The design is totally unbuffered, voltage dependent and may not work, >> and some of the suggestions there are likely to wreck a PIO if used by >> the unwary. > > Unwary should not program PICs. I dunno about that. They are among the cheapest ways for hobbyists to do small projects requiring modest amounts of data storage and i/o for minimal cost. >> Older chips also want a higher programming voltage applied. But there >> are cheap DIY PIC programmer kits for hobbyists about. > > Indeed: > http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/jppp18/index.html > > >> It is quite cute to make designs fully in circuit programmable. > > Doing that puts restrictions on I/O pins. > Low voltage programming sucks up an other I/O pin. > That is why I use high voltage programming only. > And leave the low voltage stuff to the unwary :-) You might need removable links or live with the restrictions. I find it useful YMMV. > > Now life on Enceladus? > Should be easy to do a sample return, not much gravity. > Bring some bugs over here:-) Be careful what you wish for. I favour on site mass spec and FTIR as the best tests for interesting organic molecules - which from the colours in the gas giants and their moons are almost certainly present. The big question is are they sufficiently far down the track of self organisation to count as life. Self organising catalytic reactions are more common than is generally supposed. One of the simplest and prettiest is the BZ bromate/malonic acid/cerium mix which is so tolerant that it is demonstrable in a high school lab. Very cute behaviour when unstirred in a shallow dish. Poeple have already done liquid logic with the BZ reaction...and they are pushing the boundaries with wet chemistry modelling of neurons. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8452196.stm Regards, Martin Brown |