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From: Igor on 8 Jul 2010 11:53 On Jul 7, 5:47 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jul 7, 2:20 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 7, 1:28 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 7, 6:58 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 6, 7:55 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 6, 3:40 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 4:49 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 2:35 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 12:56 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 8:43 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 5:01 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 7:17 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 1:43 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point mass can in no way rotate. Spin is for a changing size of > > > > > > > > > > > > > rotation. Particles never rotate or have changes in size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they do vibrate by their quantum aether wave flow push. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody ever said a point particle had to rotate. > > > > > > > > > > > > But they say Spin which is even more nonsensical. Spin is for changing > > > > > > > > > > > sizes of rotation rate; like an ice skater pulling in her arms. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > A body does not need > > > > > > > > > > > > to be rotating to possess angular momentum. > > > > > > > > > > > Spin is an operator on a Hilbert space. It has nothing to do with > > > > > > > > > > classical rotation.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > Yes. But that makes it nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > No, it doesn't. It means it's a word that you recognize from somewhere > > > > > > > > else that is being used with a new and different definition.. So the > > > > > > > > FIRST thing to do is to ask what this new and different definition of > > > > > > > > "spin" is, so that you will not continue to be confused. > > > > > > > > > PD- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > You show me how a mathematical point particle can rotate. > > > > > > > It doesn't. Quantum mechanical spin doesn't involve rotation of any > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > The Nobel Committee told me we don't know what we are measuring when > > > > > we measure spin. > > > > > Mitch, get some food. Your blood sugar is down. > > > > > > Do you know what we are measuring then? > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > No. It doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > Its an honest question. Point particles don't rotate. > > > What's your question? > > Point particles don't rotate. > > Quantum mechanical spin isn't a rotation of any kind. > > Point particles have quantum mechanical spin. > > The Nobel Committee says that spin is something that we don't even > know what we are measuring. Point particles don't change sizes or > rotate. > > > What's the problem again? > > Spin is a wrong concept and is even undefined. Just because you don't understand something, that doesn't make it undefined or wrong, pinhead.
From: BURT on 8 Jul 2010 14:37 On Jul 8, 8:51 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > On Jul 7, 2:28 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 7, 6:58 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 6, 7:55 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 6, 3:40 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 6, 4:49 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 2:35 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 12:56 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 8:43 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 5:01 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 7:17 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 1:43 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point mass can in no way rotate. Spin is for a changing size of > > > > > > > > > > > > rotation. Particles never rotate or have changes in size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they do vibrate by their quantum aether wave flow push. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody ever said a point particle had to rotate. > > > > > > > > > > > But they say Spin which is even more nonsensical. Spin is for changing > > > > > > > > > > sizes of rotation rate; like an ice skater pulling in her arms. > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > A body does not need > > > > > > > > > > > to be rotating to possess angular momentum. > > > > > > > > > > Spin is an operator on a Hilbert space. It has nothing to do with > > > > > > > > > classical rotation.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > Yes. But that makes it nonsense. > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > No, it doesn't. It means it's a word that you recognize from somewhere > > > > > > > else that is being used with a new and different definition. So the > > > > > > > FIRST thing to do is to ask what this new and different definition of > > > > > > > "spin" is, so that you will not continue to be confused. > > > > > > > > PD- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > You show me how a mathematical point particle can rotate. > > > > > > It doesn't. Quantum mechanical spin doesn't involve rotation of any > > > > > kind. > > > > > The Nobel Committee told me we don't know what we are measuring when > > > > we measure spin. > > > > Mitch, get some food. Your blood sugar is down. > > > > > Do you know what we are measuring then? > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > No. It doesn't happen. > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Its an honest question. Point particles don't rotate. > > > Mitch Raemsch > > Point particles don't wear underwear either. What's your point?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - A point cannot rotate and spin is a wrong concept. Mitch Raemsch
From: PD on 8 Jul 2010 16:30 On Jul 8, 1:37 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jul 8, 8:51 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 7, 2:28 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 7, 6:58 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 6, 7:55 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 6, 3:40 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 4:49 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 2:35 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 12:56 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 8:43 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 5:01 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 7:17 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 1:43 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point mass can in no way rotate. Spin is for a changing size of > > > > > > > > > > > > > rotation. Particles never rotate or have changes in size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they do vibrate by their quantum aether wave flow push. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody ever said a point particle had to rotate. > > > > > > > > > > > > But they say Spin which is even more nonsensical. Spin is for changing > > > > > > > > > > > sizes of rotation rate; like an ice skater pulling in her arms. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > A body does not need > > > > > > > > > > > > to be rotating to possess angular momentum. > > > > > > > > > > > Spin is an operator on a Hilbert space. It has nothing to do with > > > > > > > > > > classical rotation.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > Yes. But that makes it nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > No, it doesn't. It means it's a word that you recognize from somewhere > > > > > > > > else that is being used with a new and different definition.. So the > > > > > > > > FIRST thing to do is to ask what this new and different definition of > > > > > > > > "spin" is, so that you will not continue to be confused. > > > > > > > > > PD- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > You show me how a mathematical point particle can rotate. > > > > > > > It doesn't. Quantum mechanical spin doesn't involve rotation of any > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > The Nobel Committee told me we don't know what we are measuring when > > > > > we measure spin. > > > > > Mitch, get some food. Your blood sugar is down. > > > > > > Do you know what we are measuring then? > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > No. It doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > Its an honest question. Point particles don't rotate. > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > Point particles don't wear underwear either. What's your point?- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > A point cannot rotate That's right. > and spin is a wrong concept. It's a fine concept. It's clear you don't have the foggiest idea what it means. That doesn't make it wrong. > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: BURT on 8 Jul 2010 17:42 On Jul 8, 1:30 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 8, 1:37 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 8:51 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 7, 2:28 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 7, 6:58 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 6, 7:55 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 3:40 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 4:49 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 2:35 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 12:56 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 8:43 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 5:01 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 7:17 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 1:43 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point mass can in no way rotate. Spin is for a changing size of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rotation. Particles never rotate or have changes in size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they do vibrate by their quantum aether wave flow push. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody ever said a point particle had to rotate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they say Spin which is even more nonsensical. Spin is for changing > > > > > > > > > > > > sizes of rotation rate; like an ice skater pulling in her arms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A body does not need > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be rotating to possess angular momentum. > > > > > > > > > > > > Spin is an operator on a Hilbert space. It has nothing to do with > > > > > > > > > > > classical rotation.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. But that makes it nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > No, it doesn't. It means it's a word that you recognize from somewhere > > > > > > > > > else that is being used with a new and different definition. So the > > > > > > > > > FIRST thing to do is to ask what this new and different definition of > > > > > > > > > "spin" is, so that you will not continue to be confused. > > > > > > > > > > PD- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > You show me how a mathematical point particle can rotate. > > > > > > > > It doesn't. Quantum mechanical spin doesn't involve rotation of any > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > The Nobel Committee told me we don't know what we are measuring when > > > > > > we measure spin. > > > > > > Mitch, get some food. Your blood sugar is down. > > > > > > > Do you know what we are measuring then? > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > No. It doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > Its an honest question. Point particles don't rotate. > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > Point particles don't wear underwear either. What's your point?- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > A point cannot rotate > > That's right. > > > and spin is a wrong concept. > > It's a fine concept. It's clear you don't have the foggiest idea what > it means. That doesn't make it wrong. > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - If you define spin it is the ice skater pulling in her arms. Particles don't change in rotation radius therefore they cannot be caused to spin. Spin is a wrong concept in the quantum world. Mitch Raemsch
From: PD on 8 Jul 2010 18:12
On Jul 8, 4:42 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jul 8, 1:30 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 1:37 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 8, 8:51 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 7, 2:28 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 7, 6:58 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 7:55 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 3:40 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 4:49 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 2:35 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 12:56 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 6, 8:43 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 5:01 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 7:17 am, Igor <thoov...(a)excite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 1:43 am, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point mass can in no way rotate. Spin is for a changing size of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rotation. Particles never rotate or have changes in size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they do vibrate by their quantum aether wave flow push. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody ever said a point particle had to rotate.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But they say Spin which is even more nonsensical. Spin is for changing > > > > > > > > > > > > > sizes of rotation rate; like an ice skater pulling in her arms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A body does not need > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be rotating to possess angular momentum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spin is an operator on a Hilbert space. It has nothing to do with > > > > > > > > > > > > classical rotation.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. But that makes it nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > > No, it doesn't. It means it's a word that you recognize from somewhere > > > > > > > > > > else that is being used with a new and different definition. So the > > > > > > > > > > FIRST thing to do is to ask what this new and different definition of > > > > > > > > > > "spin" is, so that you will not continue to be confused.. > > > > > > > > > > > PD- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > You show me how a mathematical point particle can rotate. > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. Quantum mechanical spin doesn't involve rotation of any > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > The Nobel Committee told me we don't know what we are measuring when > > > > > > > we measure spin. > > > > > > > Mitch, get some food. Your blood sugar is down. > > > > > > > > Do you know what we are measuring then? > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > > > > > > No. It doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > Its an honest question. Point particles don't rotate. > > > > > > Mitch Raemsch > > > > > Point particles don't wear underwear either. What's your point?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > A point cannot rotate > > > That's right. > > > > and spin is a wrong concept. > > > It's a fine concept. It's clear you don't have the foggiest idea what > > it means. That doesn't make it wrong. > > > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > If you define spin it is the ice skater pulling in her arms. No, that is NOT the definition of quantum mechanical spin. This is the problem, you see. You hear "spin" and think "skater", when it means something completely different in quantum mechanics. You need to ask this question: "What does 'spin' mean in quantum mechanics, if it does not mean the same thing as what a skater does?" > Particles > don't change in rotation radius therefore they cannot be caused to > spin. > > Spin is a wrong concept in the quantum world. > > Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - |