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From: zoara on 13 Feb 2010 06:25
Jim <jim(a)magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
> zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > > at the thought of people missing out on vital medical treatment
> > > just
> > > so
> > > the human population of the planet can be increased.
> >
> > It would be naive to think that we hadn't given a lot of
> > consideration
> > to that point of view.
>
> It's also extremely naive to think that the doctors who became
> fertility
> specialists would have gone onto being cancer doctors otherwise.
>
> Not to mention that I'm extremely dubious that other people have been
> deprived of care bacause of it. It's not a zero-sum game.

Those are the conclusions we came to. It's also worth googling "billion
dollar gram" (tip o' the hat to PeterD this time!) to get some context;
there's plenty of wasteful and unnecessary expenses going on which
could, by this argument, be said to be depriving people of vital medical
intervention.

Basically, it's a simple question which doesn't have a simple,
unambiguous answer. If Rowland wants to make simple, unambiguous
statements about the ethics of the matter he's welcome to; but it says
more about him than me.

But everyone knows that already, so that's all I'm going to say about
it. I've given it more attention than it deserves already.


-z-



--
email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: Gwynne Harper on 13 Feb 2010 14:44
zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:

> Basically, it's a simple question which doesn't have a simple,
> unambiguous answer. If Rowland wants to make simple, unambiguous
> statements about the ethics of the matter he's welcome to; but it says
> more about him than me.

It also it gives *huge* job satisfaction from the other side of the
fence. Successful couples are thankful in a way that has died out in
other areas of medicine. I've made lifelong friends over the years;
who's to say that that money was wasted? Certainly not me.


Gwynne
--
My real email is net, not line.
From: Rowland McDonnell on 14 Feb 2010 04:55
zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:

> Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote:
> > at the thought of people missing out on vital medical treatment just
> > so
> > the human population of the planet can be increased.
>
> It would be naive to think that we hadn't given a lot of consideration
> to that point of view.
>
>
> > Just seems silly, that to pay for IVF, essential medical care is
> > unavailable to those who need it.
>
> According to my bank statement, we paid for this treatment.

That makes all the difference.

Rowland.
(being miserable for sideways reasons)

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From: zoara on 14 Feb 2010 19:52
Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote:
> zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid>
> > wrote:
> > > at the thought of people missing out on vital medical treatment
> > > just
> > > so
> > > the human population of the planet can be increased.
> >
> > It would be naive to think that we hadn't given a lot of
> > consideration
> > to that point of view.
> >
> >
> > > Just seems silly, that to pay for IVF, essential medical care is
> > > unavailable to those who need it.
> >
> > According to my bank statement, we paid for this treatment.
>
> That makes all the difference.

I am truly honoured that this meets with your approval. I haven't been
able to live with myself, believing that our actions may have offended
your overly-simplistic moral sensibilities.

Of course, our first round was funded by the NHS so that must mean we
are evil selfish bastards after all, I guess. Yay, go us.

-z-


--
email: nettid1 at fastmail dot fm
From: Rowland McDonnell on 15 Feb 2010 00:17
zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:

> Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote:
> > zoara <me18(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid>
> > > wrote:
> > > > at the thought of people missing out on vital medical treatment
> > > > just
> > > > so
> > > > the human population of the planet can be increased.
> > >
> > > It would be naive to think that we hadn't given a lot of
> > > consideration
> > > to that point of view.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Just seems silly, that to pay for IVF, essential medical care is
> > > > unavailable to those who need it.
> > >
> > > According to my bank statement, we paid for this treatment.
> >
> > That makes all the difference.
>
> I am truly honoured that this meets with your approval.

[snip]

I care about the needs of the sick, even if you don't.

You doh't care that to keep the tobloid-reading bottom feeders of our
society happy, the NHS is withdrawing vital life-saving services and
denying the sick access to necessary medical care, to provide IVF.

That's a gross obsenity, and one of the worst things our government has
done in recent times. It's sickening. And you don't care.

Rowland.

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