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From: sscnekro on 6 Jun 2010 21:06
Hi Folks,

it is no secret how much I d-s-l-k- the design of these sites. The unbelievable thread below just says it all (Kian rocks!) http://www.mathworks.nl/matlabcentral/newsreader/view_thread/250641

Now, seriously. The cheapest way is a doit4me sort of approach of course. MthWrks staff largely relies on the idea - "tell us, how precisely a normal site should look like and then we can get it to shape. If you don't complain day and night, then it means that the site is just perfect!! isn't it?" This sort of communication is clearly useless.

It is said that every two persons in world are connected in just a few steps. *Up for action*: Who knows guys smart in web design? Who of you are with colleges or universities to run a small Matlab Central Web ReDesign Contest, featuring "prize for the winner: x crates of beer"? Who of you knows a guy ready to sponsor that? Other channels to look for such guys? Other ways to make smart guys do it at minimum costs? More ideas on how to get these sites's design upgrade in quality?

Come on, Guys. If a group of undergrads was to make the sites in a week and every night they'd spend out drinking and let the neighbour's dog do it instead, I am sure the result would be better quality, more user-oriented, safer and cheaper than what is now. It just can't get getting on worse.
From: Walter Roberson on 6 Jun 2010 21:46
sscnekro wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> it is no secret how much I d-s-l-k- the design of these sites.

This isn't a site, this is the comp.soft-sys.matlab newsgroup. Issues
with the Mathworks provided interface should be addressed to Mathworks
-- or at the very least the posting should make it clear that the poster
knows the distinction between the newsgroup and the Mathworks' provided
interface.

> Now, seriously. The cheapest way is a doit4me sort of approach of
> course. MthWrks staff largely relies on the idea - "tell us, how
> precisely a normal site should look like and then we can get it to
> shape. If you don't complain day and night, then it means that the site
> is just perfect!! isn't it?" This sort of communication is clearly useless.

In a former life as a networking guru, there were a number of times
where someone would post to the networking newsgroup complaining
bitterly about something or other. Someone (often me) would sometimes
end up asking "What did you _expect_ to see? How could some this have
done this better?" More than 85% of the time, the person did not answer,
even if we followed up after a reasonable time and asked again. Of the
~15% that did answer, the majority of the time what they were asking for
was _already_ there in the same place they had gone looking for it --
and when we demonstrated that, the person would, most of the time,
_still_ be upset and demanding changes... but they never offered a
rephrasing or an additional keyword for the index or anything
constructive. :(

It is impossible to please everyone with a web site, impossible both in
technical content and in site format. No matter what you do, you will
encounter people who insist that information should be rewritten to
exactly what _they_ expected -- and a later person will expect it to be
rewritten to match _their_ expectation, an expectation which disagrees
with the other person's.

I know when I was asking what more could be done, I was always sincere
about it, perfectly willing to change anything I had the authority to
change, provided that the change was correct and would not detract from
anything I knew people relied upon. Unfortunately I never got anything
constructive in response.

Saying that you hate something is easy. Offering specific _feasible_
improvements takes real thought and work.


Have you considered trying different interface, such as Google Groups or
Mathforum.org or getting yourself a real newsreader, and thereby not be
reliant upon the interface you dislike?
From: dpb on 6 Jun 2010 22:06
Walter Roberson wrote:
> sscnekro wrote:
....
> I know when I was asking what more could be done, I was always
> sincere about it, perfectly willing to change anything I had the
> authority tochange, provided that the change was correct and would
> not detract from anything I knew people relied upon.
....
> Have you considered trying different interface, such as Google Groups or
> Mathforum.org or getting yourself a real newsreader, and thereby not be
> reliant upon the interface you dislike?

Or, since it's just a TMW frontend to usenet, nothing's preventing him
from writing whatever front end he wants for himself to suit
himself...doesn't have to wait on anybody for anything or worry about
anybody else's likes or dislikes. :)

--
From: sscnekro on 7 Jun 2010 11:14
Hi, Walter Roberson,

I can imagine your point of view. If I shared your profession, I think I would view webpages, newgroups etc. by the same eyes and I would probably feel similarily irritated by the message I posted. With all respect to your huge experience as a networking guru, I dare to fancy that http://www.mathworks.com/ and http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/ including - - is it called subpages? - - can be termed as web pages which I myself personally find messy and badly done in terms of design.

As I like to talk with you, if you want, you may obtain a copy of my communication with these sweet guys and even assess its constructiveness. Please let me know whether I can forward it to your newsreader e-mail or e-mail at work. I hope it will please your networking guru heart that has been so much disappointed by those unconstructive types :OP

For the rest, I fancy to dare webdesign = { idea, programming, and more} and the idea - a point on that I fully agree with you - should be something that is tested with hundreds of users and proves to work the best with the majority of them, with respect to human cognition and all the things we use to do at newsgroups etc.

From my point of view, what makes some webpage - - how is that called - - providers? to invest in testing the webpages, whereas some others not, is simply competition pressure. If there were three or four similar products as Matlab, I fancy each camp would be pretty eager to come up with the best newsgroup (if not moderated user forum) the most attractive, interactive and well-organized, etc. See one more remark in the reply to dpb.
From: sscnekro on 7 Jun 2010 11:21
Hi, dpb,

thanks for your suggestion. I think I understand your viewpoint.

Well, what prevents *her* from writing whatever front end is the lil cute - - referring the published price list - -4900 / 7950 price for the lil cute product incl. packages paid to MathWorks. Tell me on earth, why should I need to move a finger for that? On the other hand, it makes fun to make fun about these guys.
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