Iczelion's tutorials revisited.
in [ASM]
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From: Betov on 29 Aug 2005 04:12 "JGCASEY" <jgkjcasey(a)yahoo.com.au> ýcrivait news:1125261865.107706.71160 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > It interests me that those that have the ability to > write an assembler lack the ability to write their > own tutorials, particularly tutorials to get newbies > interested in assembler. I think assembler will die > out with the old guard in any hobbyist sense and > become simply a side tool for systems programmers. You just reverse the facts: What you think the future will be, is exactly what the _past_ was, before the actual rebirth. As for the beginners tutorials, you have been pointed to many very good ones, and, if you fail to understand them, the only thing that would be interresting (not considering the analyse of your IQ... :) would be to hear you saying _what_ kind of explanations you had expect to find out of the zip, instead of the ones we provide. Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: JGCASEY on 29 Aug 2005 07:00 Betov wrote: > "JGCASEY" wrote: >> It interests me that those that have the ability to >> write an assembler lack the ability to write their >> own tutorials, particularly tutorials to get newbies >> interested in assembler. I think assembler will die >> out with the old guard in any hobbyist sense and >> become simply a side tool for systems programmers. > > > You just reverse the facts: What you think the future > will be, is exactly what the _past_ was, before the > actual rebirth. > > As for the beginners tutorials, you have been pointed > to many very good ones, and, if you fail to understand > them, the only thing that would be interresting (not > considering the analyse of your IQ... :) would be to > hear you saying _what_ kind of explanations you had > expect to find out of the zip, instead of the ones we > provide. This is a reasonable comment. You've made me realise I have been ranting away without really giving it a fair go. Partly I guess I have been expressing my frustration at getting started and deciding the best way to go about it while feeling there must be an easier way. The Iczelion tuts are written for MASM so I figured that I should use MASM. This means learning how the high level directives work. I had intended using FASM but just now comparing the FASM version of tut3 "A Simple Window" and the MASM version they appear very different? Now GoAsm had some interesting tutorials so I thought, start with them, only to find the RadAsm tutorial was out of date and the information to run GoAsm wasn't there. All very frustrating. I am still keen to spend time learning some Windows assembler as it can only make it easier to understand how the Win32 APIs are used. John Casey
From: Betov on 29 Aug 2005 07:35 "JGCASEY" <jgkjcasey(a)yahoo.com.au> ýcrivait news:1125313208.846362.289800 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > This is a reasonable comment. You've made me realise I > have been ranting away without really giving it a fair > go. Partly I guess I have been expressing my frustration > at getting started and deciding the best way to go about > it while feeling there must be an easier way. _My_ problem is that i fail to imagine what could be made easier and how... > The Iczelion tuts are written for MASM so I figured > that I should use MASM. I warned you that MASM was the worst of the available Assemblers, and that Iczelion Tutorials had been ported to almost all of the good Assemblers around. > This means learning how the > high level directives work. I had intended using FASM > but just now comparing the FASM version of tut3 "A > Simple Window" and the MASM version they appear very > different? Now GoAsm had some interesting tutorials > so I thought, start with them, only to find the RadAsm > tutorial was out of date and the information to run > GoAsm wasn't there. All very frustrating. > > I am still keen to spend time learning some Windows > assembler as it can only make it easier to understand > how the Win32 APIs are used. Well, i did not not push RosAsm, when talking to you, because i do not want to behave like Master Randall Hyde, working at nothing but Self-Promotion, but, nevertheless, RosAsm _does_ exist, with Ports of Test Departement Tutorials and Iczelion Tutorials, the Interactive Visual Tutorials, that you can directly run from the Help Menu, Yeoh, Demos, and so on... Plus 2 Megas of regulary updated Integrated Documentation... And, for a start, it would really _stuck_ me, if you could say to me that the infos, materials and tools, that any Win32 beginner could ever wish would be missing you... Not considering its impressive Components list, the main advantage of RosAsm is its complete Integration of all these components. Taking your above example of "A simple window", with RosAsm, you click upon [File] /[New]/[Return], and you have it. Then you hit [F6], and it is executed through the Debugger. Want a Break- point somewhere, to see what is going on? Easy: You hit [F4]/[F4]/[F6], and you have the debugger offering stepping and all, in its Dialog, and so on... Want to learn the very first infos about Win32 Asm? Simple: [Help] /[Visual Tutorials] >>> Click >>> Run and so on... Want Info on something or anything? Simple: Right-Click and/or Double-Left-Click upon the thingie... What else would you want? That the program learn, instead of you, and store the knowledge directly into your brain, while you sleep? ;) Betov. < http://rosasm.org >
From: randyhyde@earthlink.net on 29 Aug 2005 10:22 Betov wrote: > "JGCASEY" <jgkjcasey(a)yahoo.com.au> écrivait news:1125313208.846362.289800 > @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > > > > This is a reasonable comment. You've made me realise I > > have been ranting away without really giving it a fair > > go. Partly I guess I have been expressing my frustration > > at getting started and deciding the best way to go about > > it while feeling there must be an easier way. > > _My_ problem is that i fail to imagine what could be made > easier and how... Actually, there are lots of things that could be done to make the whole learning process easier. First of all, and probably most important, the Iczelion tutorials are a disconnected bunch of examples that demonstrate how to make certain Win32API calls. The one thing they don't particularly do is answer *why* you would want to make these calls. That is, they are focused on demonstrating particular API calls rather than on demonstrating how you solve real application problems. This is *exactly* the same problem one has, for example, when trying to learn assembly by reading only the Intel Reference manuals (as Wolfgang suggests) or trying to learn assembly language by reading an assembler's manual. > > > > The Iczelion tuts are written for MASM so I figured > > that I should use MASM. > > I warned you that MASM was the worst of the available > Assemblers, and that Iczelion Tutorials had been ported > to almost all of the good Assemblers around. I didn't realize John was complaining about the quality of the MASM code, only that the FASM and MASM versions were different. Indeed, from what I infered from John's remarks, it was *exactly* using these other assemblers that caused the problems, not using MASM. > > > > I am still keen to spend time learning some Windows > > assembler as it can only make it easier to understand > > how the Win32 APIs are used. > > Well, i did not not push RosAsm, when talking to you, > because i do not want to behave like Master Randall > Hyde, working at nothing but Self-Promotion, but, > nevertheless, RosAsm _does_ exist, with Ports of > Test Departement Tutorials and Iczelion Tutorials, the > Interactive Visual Tutorials, that you can directly run > from the Help Menu, Yeoh, Demos, and so on... Plus > 2 Megas of regulary updated Integrated Documentation... "I do not push RosAsm, but watch me turn around and start pushing it..." :-) > > Not considering its impressive Components list, the > main advantage of RosAsm is... "I do not push RosAsm, but watch me turn around and start pushing it..." :-) >... its complete Integration > of all these components. Taking your above example of > "A simple window", with RosAsm, you click upon [File] > /[New]/[Return], and you have it. Then you hit [F6], > and it is executed through the Debugger. Want a Break- > point somewhere, to see what is going on? Easy: You > hit [F4]/[F4]/[F6], and you have the debugger offering > stepping and all, in its Dialog, and so on... Want to > learn the very first infos about Win32 Asm? Simple: [Help] > /[Visual Tutorials] >>> Click >>> Run and so on... Want > Info on something or anything? Simple: Right-Click and/or > Double-Left-Click upon the thingie... "I do not push RosAsm, but watch me turn around and start pushing it..." :-) > > What else would you want? That the program learn, instead > of you, and store the knowledge directly into your brain, > while you sleep? How about decent tutorials that teach you how to solve problems rather than simply teach you what API functions do? Cheers, Randy Hyde
From: Herbert Kleebauer on 29 Aug 2005 13:24
JGCASEY wrote: > I am still keen to spend time learning some Windows > assembler as it can only make it easier to understand > how the Win32 APIs are used. Forget about all the second level documentation. For the processor use the processor manuals from Intel or AMD and for the Win32 API use the documentation at msdn.com. If you really want to know what happens within an exe file, select a small exe file (I used write.exe which comes with Windows) and the exe file format specification and try to identify any byte within the exe. Remove anything which isn't necessary for a minimal executable. Then step by step add additional API calls and save the documentation for this API functions so you get your own API handbook for all the API calls you used. But I very fast lost interest in Win32 assembly programming, because it mostly is a sequence of API calls and nothing I would call "assembly programming". It is much more fun to directly access the hardware in a DOS program (even if only emulated by Windows in V86 mode). Here the source of such a miniumal Win32 console program: ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;; STDINOUT.mac: copy stdin to stdout and convert all upper case ;; ;; letter to lower case ;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; UseIdatSection=0 ; 0 if no idat section is used UseUdatSection=0 ; 0 if no udat section is used ;#==================================================================# ;# Start of Headers # ;#==================================================================# ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | Start of DOS Header | ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; DOS .EXE header dc.b 'MZ' ; Magic number dc.w dosfilesize\512 ; Bytes on last page of file (0->512) dc.w (dosfilesize-1)/512+1 ; Pages in file (Page=512 byte) dc.w 0 ; Relocations (nr of entries) dc.w doshead_end/16 ; Size of header size in paragraphs (16 byte) dc.w 0 ; Minimum extra paragraphs needed dc.w $ffff ; Maximum extra paragraphs needed dc.w 0 ; Initial (relative) SS value (ss=load_adr+nr) dc.w dosstack ; Initial SP value dc.w 0 ; Checksum dc.w dosmain ; Initial IP value dc.w 0 ; Initial (relative) CS value (cs=load_adr+nr) dc.w reloc ; File address of relocation table dc.w 0 ; Overlay number dc.w 0,0,0,0 ; Reserved words dc.w 0 ; OEM identifier (for e_oeminfo) dc.w 0 ; OEM information; e_oemid specific dc.l 0,0,0,0,0 ; Reserved words dc.l WinHeader ; File address of new exe header reloc: doshead_end: @=$0 dosmain:move.w s6,-(sp) move.w (sp)+,s0 move.w #_text,r1 move.b #$09,m0 trap #$21 move.w #$4c01,r0 trap #$21 _text: dc.b 'Nice to meet somebody who is still using DOS,',13,10 dc.b 'but his program requires Win32.',13,10,'$' even 16 dosstack=@+256 ; 256 Byte stack dosfilesize=@+256 ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | End of DOS Header | ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | Start of Windows Header | ; +--------------------------------------------+ ImageBase== $00400000 SectionAlignment== 4096 FileAlignment== 512 WinHeader=@@ @=ImageBase ; see WINNT.H for information dc.b 'PE',0,0 ; magic word ; _IMAGE_FILE_HEADER: dc.w $014c ; Machine ($014c=Intel x86 processor) dc.w NumberOfSections ; NumberOfSections dc.l $36a57950 ; TimeDateStamp (seconds since 31.12.69 16:00) dc.l 0 ; PointerToSymbolTable dc.l 0 ; NumberOfSymbols dc.w SizeOfOptionalHeader ; SizeOfOptionalHeader dc.w $010f ; Charcteristics ; 0x0001 Relocation info stripped from file. ; 0x0002 File is executable (i.e. no unresolved externel references). ; 0x0004 Line nunbers stripped from file. ; 0x0008 Local symbols stripped from file. ; 0x0010 Agressively trim working set ; 0x0080 Bytes of machine word are reversed. ; 0x0100 32 bit word machine. ; 0x0200 Debugging info stripped from file in .DBG file ; 0x0400 If Image is on removable media, copy and run from the swap file. ; 0x0800 If Image is on Net, copy and run from the swap file. ; 0x1000 System File. ; 0x2000 File is a DLL. ; 0x4000 File should only be run on a UP machine ; 0x8000 Bytes of machine word are reversed. @a=@ ; _IMAGE_OPTIONAL_HEADER dc.w $010b ; Magic dc.b 5 ; MajorLinkerVersion dc.b 12 ; MinorLinkerVersion dc.l SizeOfCode ; SizeOfCode dc.l SizeOfInitializedData ; SizeOfInitializedData dc.l SizeOfUninitializedData ; SizeOfUninitializedData dc.l winmain-ImageBase ; AddressOfEntryPoint dc.l BaseOfCode ; BaseOfCode dc.l BaseOfData ; BaseOfData dc.l ImageBase ; ImageBase dc.l SectionAlignment ; SectionAlignment dc.l FileAlignment ; FileAlignment dc.w 4 ; MajorOperatingSystemVersion dc.w 0 ; MinorOperatingSystemVersion dc.w 0 ; MajorImageVersion dc.w 0 ; MinorImageVersion dc.w 4 ; MajorSubsystemVersion dc.w 0 ; MinorSubsystemVersion dc.l 0 ; Win32VersionValue dc.l SizeOfImage ; SizeOfImage dc.l SizeOfHeaders ; SizeOfHeaders dc.l 0 ; CheckSum dc.w 3 ; Subsystem ; 0: Unknown subsystem. ; 1: Image doesn't require a subsystem. ; 2: Image runs in the Windows GUI subsystem. ; 3: Image runs in the Windows character subsystem. ; 5: image runs in the OS/2 character subsystem. ; 7: image run in the Posix character subsystem. ; 8: image run in the 8 subsystem. dc.w $0000 ; DllCharacteristics dc.l $00100000 ; SizeOfStackReserve dc.l $00001000 ; SizeOfStackCommit dc.l $00100000 ; SizeOfHeapReserve dc.l $00001000 ; SizeOfHeapCommit dc.l $00000000 ; LoaderFlags dc.l NumberOfRvaAndSize ; NumberOfRvaAndSize (entries ; in the data dir) ; .............................................. ; : Start of Image Data Directory : ; .............................................. ; virtual address, size @b=@ dc.l 0,0 ; Export Directory dc.l imp_start,imp_size ; Import Directory dc.l 0,0 ; Resource Directory dc.l 0,0 ; Exception Directory dc.l 0,0 ; Security Directory dc.l 0,0 ; Base Relocation Table dc.l 0,0 ; Debug Directory dc.l 0,0 ; Description String dc.l 0,0 ; Machine Value (MIPS GP) dc.l 0,0 ; TLS Directory dc.l 0,0 ; Load Configuration Directory dc.l 0,0 ; Bound Import Directory in headers dc.l iat_start,iat_size ; Import Address Table dc.l 0,0 ; 14 dc.l 0,0 ; 15 dc.l 0,0 ; 16 NumberOfRvaAndSize = (@-@b)/8 SizeOfOptionalHeader = @-@a ; .............................................. ; : End of Image Data Directory : ; .............................................. ; .............................................. ; : Start of Image Sections Header : ; .............................................. @a=@ dc.b '.text',0,0,0 ; name dc.l VSizeOf_text ; virtual size dc.l VBaseOf_text ; virtual address dc.l FSizeOf_text ; size of raw data dc.l FBaseOf_text ; pointer to raw data dc.l 0 ; pointer to relocatins dc.l 0 ; pointer to line numbers dc.w 0 ; number of relocations dc.w 0 ; number of line numbers dc.l $e0000020 ; characteristics IF UseIdatSection dc.b '.idat',0,0,0 ; name dc.l VSizeOf_idat ; virtual size dc.l VBaseOf_idat ; virtual address dc.l FSizeOf_idat ; size of raw data dc.l FBaseOf_idat ; pointer to raw data dc.l 0 ; pointer to relocatins dc.l 0 ; pointer to line numbers dc.w 0 ; number of relocations dc.w 0 ; number of line numbers dc.l $e0000040 ; characteristics ENDIF IF UseUdatSection dc.b '.udat',0,0 ; name dc.l VSizeOf_udat ; virtual size dc.l VBaseOf_udat ; virtual address dc.l FSizeOf_udat ; size of raw data dc.l FBaseOf_udat ; pointer to raw data dc.l 0 ; pointer to relocatins dc.l 0 ; pointer to line numbers dc.w 0 ; number of relocations dc.w 0 ; number of line numbers dc.l $e0000080 ; characteristics ENDIF NumberOfSections=(@-@a)/40 ; .............................................. ; : End of Image Sections Header : ; .............................................. ; characteristics ; 0x00000020 // Section contains code. ; 0x00000040 // Section contains initialized data. ; 0x00000080 // Section contains uninitialized data. ; 0x00000200 // Section contains comments or some other type of information. ; 0x00000800 // Section contents will not become part of image. ; 0x00001000 // Section contents comdat. ; 0x01000000 // Section contains extended relocations. ; 0x02000000 // Section can be discarded. ; 0x04000000 // Section is not cachable. ; 0x08000000 // Section is not pageable. ; 0x10000000 // Section is shareable. ; 0x20000000 // Section is executable. ; 0x40000000 // Section is readable. ; 0x80000000 // Section is writeable. ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | End of Windows Header | ; +--------------------------------------------+ evencom FileAlignment SizeOfHeaders==@@ ;#==================================================================# ;# End of Headers # ;#==================================================================# ;#==================================================================# ;# Start of Sections # ;#==================================================================# ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | Start of .text Section | ; +--------------------------------------------+ FBaseOf_text==@@ VBaseOf_text==(@-ImageBase+SectionAlignment-1)/SectionAlignment*SectionAlignment BaseOfCode==VBaseOf_text @=ImageBase+VBaseOf_text ; .............................................. ; : Start of Thunk Table : ; .............................................. iat_start=@-ImageBase USER32_thunk: MessageBoxA:: dc.l USER32_MessageBoxA -ImageBase dc.l 0 KERNEL32_thunk: ExitProcess:: dc.l KERNEL32_ExitProcess -ImageBase GetStdHandle:: dc.l KERNEL32_GetStdHandle -ImageBase ReadFile:: dc.l KERNEL32_ReadFile -ImageBase WriteFile:: dc.l KERNEL32_WriteFile -ImageBase dc.l 0 iat_size=@-ImageBase-iat_start ; .............................................. ; : End of Thunk Table : ; .............................................. ; .............................................. ; : Start of Import Directory : ; .............................................. imp_start==@-ImageBase imp: dc.l USER32_import -ImageBase dc.l 0 dc.l 0 dc.l USER32_name -ImageBase dc.l USER32_thunk -ImageBase dc.l KERNEL32_import -ImageBase dc.l 0 dc.l 0 dc.l KERNEL32_name -ImageBase dc.l KERNEL32_thunk -ImageBase dc.l 0 dc.l 0 dc.l 0 dc.l 0 dc.l 0 imp_size==@-imp ; .............................................. ; : End of Import Directory : ; .............................................. USER32_name: dc.b 'USER32.dll',0 even USER32_import: dc.l USER32_MessageBoxA -ImageBase dc.l 0 even USER32_MessageBoxA: dc.w 0 dc.b 'MessageBoxA',0 even KERNEL32_name: dc.b 'KERNEL32.dll',0 even KERNEL32_import: dc.l KERNEL32_ExitProcess -ImageBase dc.l KERNEL32_GetStdHandle -ImageBase dc.l KERNEL32_ReadFile -ImageBase dc.l KERNEL32_WriteFile -ImageBase dc.l 0 even KERNEL32_ExitProcess: dc.w 0 dc.b 'ExitProcess',0 even KERNEL32_GetStdHandle: dc.w 0 dc.b 'GetStdHandle',0 even KERNEL32_ReadFile: dc.w 0 dc.b 'ReadFile',0 even KERNEL32_WriteFile: dc.w 0 dc.b 'WriteFile',0 even ; .............................................. ; : Start of Code : ; .............................................. label_block seg32 winmain:: loop: bsr.l getc ; get char from stdin cmp.l #-1,r0 ; EOF bne.b _10 ; branch if not moveq.l #0,-(sp) jsr.l (ExitProcess) ; exit program _10: cmp.b #'A',r0 blo.b _20 cmp.b #'Z',r0 bhi.b _20 add.b #'a'-'A',r0 _20: bsr.l putc ; write char to stdout br.b loop ; go on putc: move.l r0,-(sp) move.b r0,_buf eor.l r0,r0 add.l _handle,r0 bne.b _10 moveq.l #-11,-(sp) jsr.l (GetStdHandle) move.l r0,_handle _10: moveq.l #0,-(sp) move.l #_count,-(sp) moveq.l #1,-(sp) move.l #_buf,-(sp) move.l r0,-(sp) jsr.l (WriteFile) or.l r0,r0 bne.b _20 _30: moveq.l #0,-(sp) move.l #_text,-(sp) move.l #_text,-(sp) moveq.l #0,-(sp) jsr.l (MessageBoxA) moveq.l #0,-(sp) jsr.l (ExitProcess) _20: cmp.l #1,_count bne.b _30 move.l (sp)+,r0 rts.l _buf: dc.b 0 _text: dc.b 'write error',0 even4 _handle:dc.l 0 _count: dc.l 0 getc: eor.l r0,r0 add.l _handle,r0 bne.b _10 moveq.l #-10,-(sp) jsr.l (GetStdHandle) move.l r0,_handle _10: moveq.l #0,-(sp) move.l #_count,-(sp) moveq.l #1,-(sp) move.l #_buf,-(sp) move.l r0,-(sp) jsr.l (ReadFile) or.l r0,r0 bne.b _20 moveq.l #0,-(sp) move.l #_text,-(sp) move.l #_text,-(sp) moveq.l #0,-(sp) jsr.l (MessageBoxA) moveq.l #0,-(sp) jsr.l (ExitProcess) _20: movu.bl _buf,r0 cmp.l #1,_count beq.b _30 move.l #-1,r0 _30: rts.l _buf: dc.b 0 _text: dc.b 'read error',0 even4 _handle:dc.l 0 _count: dc.l 0 ; .............................................. ; : End of Code : ; .............................................. VSizeOf_text==@-Imagebase-VBaseOf_text @a=@ evencom FileAlignment @=@a FSizeOf_text==@@-FBaseOf_text SizeOfCode==FSizeOf_text ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | End of .text Section | ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | Start of .idat Section | ; +--------------------------------------------+ FBaseOf_idat==@@ VBaseOf_idat==(@-ImageBase+SectionAlignment-1)/SectionAlignment*SectionAlignment BaseOfData==VBaseOf_idat @=ImageBase+VBaseOf_idat ; Insert initialized variables here (and set UseIdatSection=1 ; at the top of this file). Because the code section is set ; r/w-able, you can put initialized variables also into the ; code section. ; var1: dc.l 0 ; var2: dc.l $12345678 VSizeOf_idat==@-Imagebase-VBaseOf_idat @a=@ evencom FileAlignment @=@a FSizeOf_idat==@@-FBaseOf_idat ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | End of .idat Section | ; +--------------------------------------------+ SizeOfInitializedData==FSizeOf_idat ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | Start of .udat Section | ; +--------------------------------------------+ FBaseOf_udat==@@ VBaseOf_udat==(@-ImageBase+SectionAlignment-1)/SectionAlignment*SectionAlignment @=ImageBase+VBaseOf_udat ; Insert uninitialized variables here (and set UseUdatSection=1 ; at the top of this file). Because the code section is set ; r/w-able, you can put uninitialized variables also at the END ; of the code section. ; buf1: blk.l 10 ; buf2: blk.l 200 VSizeOf_udat==@-Imagebase-VBaseOf_udat @a=@ evencom FileAlignment @=@a FSizeOf_udat==@@-FBaseOf_udat ; +--------------------------------------------+ ; | End of .udat Section | ; +--------------------------------------------+ SizeOfUninitializedData==VSizeOf_udat SizeOfImage==(@-ImageBase+SectionAlignment-1)/SectionAlignment*SectionAlignment ;#==================================================================# ;# End of Sections # ;#==================================================================# |