Infinity crossover coil value
in [Repair]
|
From: Speedskater on 22 Jan 2007 09:42 Bob Urz wrote: > > > Arny Krueger wrote: > >> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >> news:1169434331_1227(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >> >>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>> >>>> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>>> news:1169431172_935(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>> >>>> >>>>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:1169311899_13943(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "BOB Urz" <"sound"@(remove) inetnebr.com> wrote in >>>>>>>> message news:1169270006_10549(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When i can get no rings out of them on the sencore, >>>>>>>>> you can about guarantee some turns are shorted. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That appears to be self-contradictory. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you trying to saythat even though the coils pass >>>>>>>> a shorted-turn test, you still think they are too far >>>>>>>> gone to be worth measuring? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> You DON'T understand Arny. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Right Bob I can't read your mind. You wrote a post in a >>>>>> way that would only be meaningful to someone who had >>>>>> experience with a specific piece of fairly esoteric >>>>>> test equipment. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Well , lets see. I said i got no rings, and that about >>>>> guarantees a shorted turns. You (who obviously doesn't >>>>> know about ringers), says it appears to be >>>>> contradictory. So, you obviously thought you knew something about >>>>> ringers to make your statement "that appears to be self >>>>> contradictory". >>>> >>>> >>>> I know that this will make your day Bob, but I've never >>>> heard of a shorted-turn tester called a ringer. I said >>>> that the usage appeared to be contrdictory for that >>>> reason. Therefore your claim that I thought I knew what a ringer >>>> was is completely false. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> If you did no know >>>>> what a ringer or ring test on a coil was, goggle was a >>>>> few key strokes away. >>>> >>>> >>>> I just googled "ringer shorted turn" and nothing popped >>>> up that was obviously relevant in the first few pages. >>>> >>>> Ditto for "ring test". >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Humm Arny, your not as smart as i thought. >>> >>> Google Marco search: >>> terms( coil ring test) >>> Results 11 - 20 of about 1,190,000 for coil ring test. >> >> >> Not what I said. I introduced a concept that seems foreign to you Bob >> - hits that are actually relevant to the topic. >> >> By citing all these irrelevant hits, you're showing that you can't >> determine relevance of the hits received to your own topic. >> > Ok Arny. Your a smart guy RIght? You have used google before right? > And you know how to search for topics? > > With the words "coil ring sencore", here are the hits (in order) > > ePanorama.net :: View topic - Infinity crossover coil value > to the tweeter. I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it measures > about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know turns are ... > www.epanorama.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45813&sid=d1cd540e78fa673ee91061889a9e3a5a > - 69k - Jan 20, 2007 - Cached - Similar pages > [PDF] > Complete Flyback/IHVT Testing > File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML > secondary windings will never ring 10. The primary coil is usually the > ... This can be tested with a Sencore Z-. Meter. You first need to find > two separate ... > www.sencore.com/custsup/pdf/TT217.pdf - Similar pages > Sencore designs, builds, and markets electronic test instruments. > Sencore designs and manufactures electronic equipment for service and > repair ... number of cycles the inductor rings before reaching a preset > damping point. ... > www.sencore.com/products/lc103.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages > [ More results from www.sencore.com ] > Sencore > Sencore, Inc. >Test Equipment / AC Power Management > General or > Systemic ... all four failure modes, and complete coil tests for value > and shorted turns. ... > catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/CTL1857/index.cfm?mlc_id=1857&NOTRACK=1&pin_id=2345&prodID=315911 > - 23k - Cached - Similar pages > [PDF] > LC103 ReZolver In-Circuit Capacitor & Inductor Analyzer > File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML > Sencore Engineers have. empirically determined that any air core. or > ferrite core coil will ring at least. 10 times before decaying to less > than 25%, ... > catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/images/documents/pdfs/LC103%20brochure-6956.pdf > - Similar pages > Method and apparatus for testing television yokes and flyback ... > Assignee:, Sencore, Inc. (Sioux Falls, SD). Primary Class: ... Each > capacitor will cause the coil 16 to ring at a different frequency. ... > www.freepatentsonline.com/3990002.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages > Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: Testing of Flyback (LOPT) Transformers > Another 10 turn coil is wound on the suspect flyback core anywhere it > will fit. ... Sencore and others sell test equipment that includes the > 'ring test' or ... > www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_flytest.html - 54k - Cached - Similar pages > [PDF] > > > > You only had to go a couple of hits down to find information. > Hardly searching through 1000 of "irrelevant hits". > A computer literate person that claims to be such a audio > wealth of information should have been able to do this in > a couple of minutes. > > > Bob > > > > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet > News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ > Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Bob, if in your first usage, you had said "using the Sencore ring test" we would not be having this discussion. I think of a Sencore as an old multi-meter. I had no idea that Sencore had a special coil test. To me rings out is an old telephone term.
From: GregS on 22 Jan 2007 09:55 In article <1169253079_9287(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, sound(a)inetnebr.com wrote: >I had a customer bring in an Infinity KPX00 crossover for a 6.5" car >unit. Coil L2 has burnt marks on it, Its a 24db linkquitz riley filter >(or so the spec sheet says). >Customer claims low tweeter output > >http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner's%20Manual/KAPPA%20PERFECT%206-1%20om.p >df > >in: >(+) >-------| > | > == C=15.7ufd > | C=14ufd R=(1,2,4) OUTPUT > |------------][------------/\/\/\/\/\------| > > | > >L2 (burnt) | > > * >(tweeter) > | * > | | >------------------------------------------------ >(-) (-) > >So, the input is a series cap inductor combination with a 15.7 MFD and >unknown coil in series with the amp. The center tap of the two feeds a >14MFD cap and then goes through a series resistor adjustable pad >to the tweeter. I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it measures >about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know turns are >shorted and this value is suspect. Any clue on the value of this coil? > >Strange, this seems to be a 3rd order filter rather than what the tear >sheets says. >Only one coil on the high pass with two caps. >Minus the pad, it looks like the 3rd order 18 DB filter here: > >http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html > >and these calculated 3500hz values are (4 ohm nominal) >C=7.5 ufd >L=0.1364 mh >C2=22.7 > >standard replacement coil values are .1,.13,.15,.20,.27,.33 and etc. > >Thoughts? > >Bob Plugging in the values, I seem to get slightly higher values of L1. but not much. A crossover cannot be tested by itself. The drivers also play into the crossover, also making poles and things. I would try some real time values and listening test. the value should be between .3 and .5 mh. If you could measure the R, unwind the coil, and measure R, that might tell the extent of the damage. greg
From: Bob Urz on 22 Jan 2007 10:00 Speedskater wrote: > Bob Urz wrote: > >> >> >> Arny Krueger wrote: >> >>> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>> news:1169434331_1227(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>> >>>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:1169431172_935(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:1169311899_13943(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "BOB Urz" <"sound"@(remove) inetnebr.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>> message news:1169270006_10549(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When i can get no rings out of them on the sencore, >>>>>>>>>> you can about guarantee some turns are shorted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That appears to be self-contradictory. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you trying to saythat even though the coils pass >>>>>>>>> a shorted-turn test, you still think they are too far >>>>>>>>> gone to be worth measuring? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You DON'T understand Arny. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right Bob I can't read your mind. You wrote a post in a >>>>>>> way that would only be meaningful to someone who had >>>>>>> experience with a specific piece of fairly esoteric >>>>>>> test equipment. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Well , lets see. I said i got no rings, and that about >>>>>> guarantees a shorted turns. You (who obviously doesn't >>>>>> know about ringers), says it appears to be >>>>>> contradictory. So, you obviously thought you knew something about >>>>>> ringers to make your statement "that appears to be self >>>>>> contradictory". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I know that this will make your day Bob, but I've never >>>>> heard of a shorted-turn tester called a ringer. I said >>>>> that the usage appeared to be contrdictory for that >>>>> reason. Therefore your claim that I thought I knew what a ringer >>>>> was is completely false. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If you did no know >>>>>> what a ringer or ring test on a coil was, goggle was a >>>>>> few key strokes away. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I just googled "ringer shorted turn" and nothing popped >>>>> up that was obviously relevant in the first few pages. >>>>> >>>>> Ditto for "ring test". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Humm Arny, your not as smart as i thought. >>>> >>>> Google Marco search: >>>> terms( coil ring test) >>>> Results 11 - 20 of about 1,190,000 for coil ring test. >>> >>> >>> >>> Not what I said. I introduced a concept that seems foreign to you Bob >>> - hits that are actually relevant to the topic. >>> >>> By citing all these irrelevant hits, you're showing that you can't >>> determine relevance of the hits received to your own topic. >>> >> Ok Arny. Your a smart guy RIght? You have used google before right? >> And you know how to search for topics? >> >> With the words "coil ring sencore", here are the hits (in order) >> >> ePanorama.net :: View topic - Infinity crossover coil value >> to the tweeter. I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it >> measures about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know >> turns are ... >> www.epanorama.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45813&sid=d1cd540e78fa673ee91061889a9e3a5a >> - 69k - Jan 20, 2007 - Cached - Similar pages >> [PDF] >> Complete Flyback/IHVT Testing >> File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML >> secondary windings will never ring 10. The primary coil is usually the >> ... This can be tested with a Sencore Z-. Meter. You first need to >> find two separate ... >> www.sencore.com/custsup/pdf/TT217.pdf - Similar pages >> Sencore designs, builds, and markets electronic test instruments. >> Sencore designs and manufactures electronic equipment for service and >> repair ... number of cycles the inductor rings before reaching a >> preset damping point. ... >> www.sencore.com/products/lc103.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages >> [ More results from www.sencore.com ] >> Sencore >> Sencore, Inc. >Test Equipment / AC Power Management > General or >> Systemic ... all four failure modes, and complete coil tests for value >> and shorted turns. ... >> catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/CTL1857/index.cfm?mlc_id=1857&NOTRACK=1&pin_id=2345&prodID=315911 >> - 23k - Cached - Similar pages >> [PDF] >> LC103 ReZolver In-Circuit Capacitor & Inductor Analyzer >> File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML >> Sencore Engineers have. empirically determined that any air core. or >> ferrite core coil will ring at least. 10 times before decaying to less >> than 25%, ... >> catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/images/documents/pdfs/LC103%20brochure-6956.pdf >> - Similar pages >> Method and apparatus for testing television yokes and flyback ... >> Assignee:, Sencore, Inc. (Sioux Falls, SD). Primary Class: ... Each >> capacitor will cause the coil 16 to ring at a different frequency. ... >> www.freepatentsonline.com/3990002.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages >> Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: Testing of Flyback (LOPT) Transformers >> Another 10 turn coil is wound on the suspect flyback core anywhere it >> will fit. ... Sencore and others sell test equipment that includes the >> 'ring test' or ... >> www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_flytest.html - 54k - Cached - Similar pages >> [PDF] >> >> >> >> You only had to go a couple of hits down to find information. >> Hardly searching through 1000 of "irrelevant hits". >> A computer literate person that claims to be such a audio >> wealth of information should have been able to do this in >> a couple of minutes. >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet >> News==---- >> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >> 120,000+ Newsgroups >> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption >> =---- > > > Bob, if in your first usage, you had said "using the Sencore ring test" > we would not be having this discussion. I think of a Sencore as an > old multi-meter. I had no idea that Sencore had a special coil test. To > me rings out is an old telephone term. People still use the term "ring out" to test wiring. I did not start this thread to be argumentative. Although any thread with Arny in it seems to end up this way. Arny as the only one who seemed to not know about what a coil ring test was and to make a bone about it. Sencore is well known in the service industry for specialized service test equipment. Anybody can google it or go to their web site for further information. What i originally said was: "I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it measures about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know turns are shorted and this value is suspect. Any clue on the value of this coil?" So the words Sencore, coil, ring, test are all there. Just maybe not in the order that Arny would like. Why is it that all anybody wants to discuss is ring tests rather than suitable coil replacement values? When i get some time, i'll have to find the equations and try to solve for the inductor value and get the closest standard value. That's what this thread was all about. Bob ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
From: GregS on 22 Jan 2007 10:04 In article <z34th.14384$8U4.3926(a)newsfe20.lga>, Speedskater <grafkc(a)cox.net> wrote: >Bob Urz wrote: >> >> >> Arny Krueger wrote: >> >>> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>> news:1169434331_1227(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>> >>>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:1169431172_935(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:1169311899_13943(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arny Krueger wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "BOB Urz" <"sound"@(remove) inetnebr.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>> message news:1169270006_10549(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When i can get no rings out of them on the sencore, >>>>>>>>>> you can about guarantee some turns are shorted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That appears to be self-contradictory. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you trying to saythat even though the coils pass >>>>>>>>> a shorted-turn test, you still think they are too far >>>>>>>>> gone to be worth measuring? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You DON'T understand Arny. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right Bob I can't read your mind. You wrote a post in a >>>>>>> way that would only be meaningful to someone who had >>>>>>> experience with a specific piece of fairly esoteric >>>>>>> test equipment. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Well , lets see. I said i got no rings, and that about >>>>>> guarantees a shorted turns. You (who obviously doesn't >>>>>> know about ringers), says it appears to be >>>>>> contradictory. So, you obviously thought you knew something about >>>>>> ringers to make your statement "that appears to be self >>>>>> contradictory". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I know that this will make your day Bob, but I've never >>>>> heard of a shorted-turn tester called a ringer. I said >>>>> that the usage appeared to be contrdictory for that >>>>> reason. Therefore your claim that I thought I knew what a ringer >>>>> was is completely false. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If you did no know >>>>>> what a ringer or ring test on a coil was, goggle was a >>>>>> few key strokes away. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I just googled "ringer shorted turn" and nothing popped >>>>> up that was obviously relevant in the first few pages. >>>>> >>>>> Ditto for "ring test". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Humm Arny, your not as smart as i thought. >>>> >>>> Google Marco search: >>>> terms( coil ring test) >>>> Results 11 - 20 of about 1,190,000 for coil ring test. >>> >>> >>> Not what I said. I introduced a concept that seems foreign to you Bob >>> - hits that are actually relevant to the topic. >>> >>> By citing all these irrelevant hits, you're showing that you can't >>> determine relevance of the hits received to your own topic. >>> >> Ok Arny. Your a smart guy RIght? You have used google before right? >> And you know how to search for topics? >> >> With the words "coil ring sencore", here are the hits (in order) >> >> ePanorama.net :: View topic - Infinity crossover coil value >> to the tweeter. I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it measures >> about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know turns are ... >> > www.epanorama.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45813&sid=d1cd540e78fa673ee91061889a9 >e3a5a >> - 69k - Jan 20, 2007 - Cached - Similar pages >> [PDF] >> Complete Flyback/IHVT Testing >> File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML >> secondary windings will never ring 10. The primary coil is usually the >> ... This can be tested with a Sencore Z-. Meter. You first need to find >> two separate ... >> www.sencore.com/custsup/pdf/TT217.pdf - Similar pages >> Sencore designs, builds, and markets electronic test instruments. >> Sencore designs and manufactures electronic equipment for service and >> repair ... number of cycles the inductor rings before reaching a preset >> damping point. ... >> www.sencore.com/products/lc103.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages >> [ More results from www.sencore.com ] >> Sencore >> Sencore, Inc. >Test Equipment / AC Power Management > General or >> Systemic ... all four failure modes, and complete coil tests for value >> and shorted turns. ... >> > catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/CTL1857/index.cfm?mlc_id=1857&NOTRACK=1&pin_id=2 >345&prodID=315911 >> - 23k - Cached - Similar pages >> [PDF] >> LC103 ReZolver In-Circuit Capacitor & Inductor Analyzer >> File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML >> Sencore Engineers have. empirically determined that any air core. or >> ferrite core coil will ring at least. 10 times before decaying to less >> than 25%, ... >> catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/images/documents/pdfs/LC103%20brochure-6956.pdf > >> - Similar pages >> Method and apparatus for testing television yokes and flyback ... >> Assignee:, Sencore, Inc. (Sioux Falls, SD). Primary Class: ... Each >> capacitor will cause the coil 16 to ring at a different frequency. ... >> www.freepatentsonline.com/3990002.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages >> Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: Testing of Flyback (LOPT) Transformers >> Another 10 turn coil is wound on the suspect flyback core anywhere it >> will fit. ... Sencore and others sell test equipment that includes the >> 'ring test' or ... >> www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_flytest.html - 54k - Cached - Similar pages >> [PDF] >> >> >> >> You only had to go a couple of hits down to find information. >> Hardly searching through 1000 of "irrelevant hits". >> A computer literate person that claims to be such a audio >> wealth of information should have been able to do this in >> a couple of minutes. >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet >> News==---- >> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ >> Newsgroups >> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- > >Bob, if in your first usage, you had said "using the Sencore ring test" > we would not be having this discussion. I think of a Sencore as an >old multi-meter. I had no idea that Sencore had a special coil test. To >me rings out is an old telephone term. To test coils and flyback, there is a common test. There is also a modern device, really simple. A pulse generator connected to a scope. That is a problem for me in testing coils. i don't usually have anything set up to make sure the coils are not shorted. A driver would also have problems with only a turn or two shorted. I saw nothing wrong with the way Bob presented his case. greg
From: Bob Urz on 22 Jan 2007 10:06
Arny Krueger wrote: > "Mr.T" <MrT(a)home> wrote in message > news:45b4310b$0$9771$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au > >>"Bob Urz" <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote in message >>news:1169434331_1227(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net... >> >>>First rule of web searches is to play with the search >>>terms until you get the desired result. >> >>Which assumes you know what the desired result is. Arny >>was gracious enough to admit he had never heard of a ring >>test, therefore could not be expected to know. Now that >>may be surprising, but hardly a hanging offence. :-) > > > You've got to remember that Bob is a disciple of the inestimable Phildo and > George, the bitter, often intoxicated trolls who continuously run down > AAPLS. > > What do Phildo and george have to do with this thread? And this is NOT posted to AAPLS. Get your groups straight Arny. And unlike those you mention, i actually fix things. Simple technical question. Who has the answer? I guess you don't............ Bob ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |