Infinity crossover coil value
in [Repair]
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From: GregS on 22 Jan 2007 11:00 In article <1169478703_5171(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Bob Urz <sound(a)inetnebr.com> wrote: > > >GregS wrote: > >> In article <1169253079_9287(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, sound(a)inetnebr.com wrote: >> >>>I had a customer bring in an Infinity KPX00 crossover for a 6.5" car >>>unit. Coil L2 has burnt marks on it, Its a 24db linkquitz riley filter >>>(or so the spec sheet says). >>>Customer claims low tweeter output >>> >>>http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner's%20Manual/KAPPA%20PERFECT%206-1%20om >.p >>>df >>> >>>in: >>>(+) >>>-------| >>> | >>> == C=15.7ufd >>> | C=14ufd R=(1,2,4) OUTPUT >>> |------------][------------/\/\/\/\/\------| >>> > | >>> >L2 (burnt) | >>> > * >>>(tweeter) >>> | * >>> | | >>>------------------------------------------------ >>>(-) (-) >>> >>>So, the input is a series cap inductor combination with a 15.7 MFD and >>>unknown coil in series with the amp. The center tap of the two feeds a >>>14MFD cap and then goes through a series resistor adjustable pad >>>to the tweeter. I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it measures >>>about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know turns are >>>shorted and this value is suspect. Any clue on the value of this coil? >>> >>>Strange, this seems to be a 3rd order filter rather than what the tear >>>sheets says. >>>Only one coil on the high pass with two caps. >>>Minus the pad, it looks like the 3rd order 18 DB filter here: >>> >>>http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html >>> >>>and these calculated 3500hz values are (4 ohm nominal) >>>C=7.5 ufd >>>L=0.1364 mh >>>C2=22.7 >>> >>>standard replacement coil values are .1,.13,.15,.20,.27,.33 and etc. >>> >>>Thoughts? >>> >>>Bob >> >> >> Plugging in the values, I seem to get slightly higher values of L1. >> but not much. A crossover cannot be tested by itself. The >> drivers also play into the crossover, also making poles and things. >> I would try some real time values and listening test. the value should be >> between .3 and .5 mh. If you could measure the R, unwind the coil, >> and measure R, that might tell the extent of the damage. >> >> greg >The link i provided was found with a quick search. >I am guessing its that topology. >Some of the information seems to be conflicting. > > >What do you mean by measure R with the coil wound and unwound? > >Bob Unwinding removes the short. You may actually see where the short is, ir may be welded together. grge
From: GregS on 22 Jan 2007 11:02 In article <ep2n3q$gp4$1(a)usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, szekeres(a)pitt.edu (GregS) wrote: >In article <1169478703_5171(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Bob Urz <sound(a)inetnebr.com> > wrote: >> >> >>GregS wrote: >> >>> In article <1169253079_9287(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, sound(a)inetnebr.com wrote: >>> >>>>I had a customer bring in an Infinity KPX00 crossover for a 6.5" car >>>>unit. Coil L2 has burnt marks on it, Its a 24db linkquitz riley filter >>>>(or so the spec sheet says). >>>>Customer claims low tweeter output >>>> >>>>http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner's%20Manual/KAPPA%20PERFECT%206-1%20o >m >>.p >>>>df >>>> >>>>in: >>>>(+) >>>>-------| >>>> | >>>> == C=15.7ufd >>>> | C=14ufd R=(1,2,4) OUTPUT >>>> |------------][------------/\/\/\/\/\------| >>>> > | >>>> >L2 (burnt) | >>>> > * >>>>(tweeter) >>>> | * >>>> | | >>>>------------------------------------------------ >>>>(-) (-) >>>> >>>>So, the input is a series cap inductor combination with a 15.7 MFD and >>>>unknown coil in series with the amp. The center tap of the two feeds a >>>>14MFD cap and then goes through a series resistor adjustable pad >>>>to the tweeter. I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it measures >>>>about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know turns are >>>>shorted and this value is suspect. Any clue on the value of this coil? >>>> >>>>Strange, this seems to be a 3rd order filter rather than what the tear >>>>sheets says. >>>>Only one coil on the high pass with two caps. >>>>Minus the pad, it looks like the 3rd order 18 DB filter here: >>>> >>>>http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html >>>> >>>>and these calculated 3500hz values are (4 ohm nominal) >>>>C=7.5 ufd >>>>L=0.1364 mh >>>>C2=22.7 >>>> >>>>standard replacement coil values are .1,.13,.15,.20,.27,.33 and etc. >>>> >>>>Thoughts? >>>> >>>>Bob >>> >>> >>> Plugging in the values, I seem to get slightly higher values of L1. >>> but not much. A crossover cannot be tested by itself. The >>> drivers also play into the crossover, also making poles and things. >>> I would try some real time values and listening test. the value should be >>> between .3 and .5 mh. If you could measure the R, unwind the coil, >>> and measure R, that might tell the extent of the damage. >>> >>> greg >>The link i provided was found with a quick search. >>I am guessing its that topology. >>Some of the information seems to be conflicting. >> >> >>What do you mean by measure R with the coil wound and unwound? >> >>Bob > >Unwinding removes the short. You may actually see where the short is, ir >may be welded together. > >grge It also determines the R total shorted, and unshorted. greg
From: BOB Urz "sound" on 23 Jan 2007 13:45 GregS wrote: > In article <ep2n3q$gp4$1(a)usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, szekeres(a)pitt.edu (GregS) wrote: > >In article <1169478703_5171(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Bob Urz <sound(a)inetnebr.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> > >>GregS wrote: > >> > >>> In article <1169253079_9287(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, sound(a)inetnebr.com wrote: > >>> > >>>>I had a customer bring in an Infinity KPX00 crossover for a 6.5" car > >>>>unit. Coil L2 has burnt marks on it, Its a 24db linkquitz riley filter > >>>>(or so the spec sheet says). > >>>>Customer claims low tweeter output > >>>> > >>>>http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner's%20Manual/KAPPA%20PERFECT%206-1%20o > >m > >>.p > >>>>df > >>>> > >>>>in: > >>>>(+) > >>>>-------| > >>>> | > >>>> == C=15.7ufd > >>>> | C=14ufd R=(1,2,4) OUTPUT > >>>> |------------][------------/\/\/\/\/\------| > >>>> > | > >>>> >L2 (burnt) | > >>>> > * > >>>>(tweeter) > >>>> | * > >>>> | | > >>>>------------------------------------------------ > >>>>(-) (-) > >>>> > >>>>So, the input is a series cap inductor combination with a 15.7 MFD and > >>>>unknown coil in series with the amp. The center tap of the two feeds a > >>>>14MFD cap and then goes through a series resistor adjustable pad > >>>>to the tweeter. I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it measures > >>>>about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know turns are > >>>>shorted and this value is suspect. Any clue on the value of this coil? > >>>> > >>>>Strange, this seems to be a 3rd order filter rather than what the tear > >>>>sheets says. > >>>>Only one coil on the high pass with two caps. > >>>>Minus the pad, it looks like the 3rd order 18 DB filter here: > >>>> > >>>>http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html > >>>> > >>>>and these calculated 3500hz values are (4 ohm nominal) > >>>>C=7.5 ufd > >>>>L=0.1364 mh > >>>>C2=22.7 > >>>> > >>>>standard replacement coil values are .1,.13,.15,.20,.27,.33 and etc. > >>>> > >>>>Thoughts? > >>>> > >>>>Bob > >>> > >>> > >>> Plugging in the values, I seem to get slightly higher values of L1. > >>> but not much. A crossover cannot be tested by itself. The > >>> drivers also play into the crossover, also making poles and things. > >>> I would try some real time values and listening test. the value should be > >>> between .3 and .5 mh. If you could measure the R, unwind the coil, > >>> and measure R, that might tell the extent of the damage. > >>> > >>> greg > >>The link i provided was found with a quick search. > >>I am guessing its that topology. > >>Some of the information seems to be conflicting. > >> > >> > >>What do you mean by measure R with the coil wound and unwound? > >> > >>Bob > > > >Unwinding removes the short. You may actually see where the short is, ir > >may be welded together. > > > >grge > > It also determines the R total shorted, and unshorted. > > greg What good is R shorted or unshorted? I unwrapped the coil. It measured on the FLuke about ..2 either way. It was burnt down. to the bottom layer(5 layers or so). And the coils bobbin (plastic) was melted and deformed) Even with only one layer showing, it still flunked the ring test. Bob ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
From: GregS on 23 Jan 2007 14:02 In article <1169577585_14087(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, sound(a)inetnebr.com wrote: > > >GregS wrote: > >> In article <ep2n3q$gp4$1(a)usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, szekeres(a)pitt.edu > (GregS) wrote: >> >In article <1169478703_5171(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Bob Urz > <sound(a)inetnebr.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>GregS wrote: >> >> >> >>> In article <1169253079_9287(a)sp6iad.superfeed.net>, sound(a)inetnebr.com > wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>I had a customer bring in an Infinity KPX00 crossover for a 6.5" car >> >>>>unit. Coil L2 has burnt marks on it, Its a 24db linkquitz riley filter >> >>>>(or so the spec sheet says). >> >>>>Customer claims low tweeter output >> >>>> >> > >>>>http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner's%20Manual/KAPPA%20PERFECT%206-1%2 >0o >> >m >> >>.p >> >>>>df >> >>>> >> >>>>in: >> >>>>(+) >> >>>>-------| >> >>>> | >> >>>> == C=15.7ufd >> >>>> | C=14ufd R=(1,2,4) OUTPUT >> >>>> |------------][------------/\/\/\/\/\------| >> >>>> > | >> >>>> >L2 (burnt) | >> >>>> > * >> >>>>(tweeter) >> >>>> | * >> >>>> | | >> >>>>------------------------------------------------ >> >>>>(-) (-) >> >>>> >> >>>>So, the input is a series cap inductor combination with a 15.7 MFD and >> >>>>unknown coil in series with the amp. The center tap of the two feeds a >> >>>>14MFD cap and then goes through a series resistor adjustable pad >> >>>>to the tweeter. I tried to read the coil on my sencore, and it measures >> >>>>about .3 MH. It won't pass any ring test (air core) so i know turns are >> >>>>shorted and this value is suspect. Any clue on the value of this coil? >> >>>> >> >>>>Strange, this seems to be a 3rd order filter rather than what the tear >> >>>>sheets says. >> >>>>Only one coil on the high pass with two caps. >> >>>>Minus the pad, it looks like the 3rd order 18 DB filter here: >> >>>> >> >>>>http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html >> >>>> >> >>>>and these calculated 3500hz values are (4 ohm nominal) >> >>>>C=7.5 ufd >> >>>>L=0.1364 mh >> >>>>C2=22.7 >> >>>> >> >>>>standard replacement coil values are .1,.13,.15,.20,.27,.33 and etc. >> >>>> >> >>>>Thoughts? >> >>>> >> >>>>Bob >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Plugging in the values, I seem to get slightly higher values of L1. >> >>> but not much. A crossover cannot be tested by itself. The >> >>> drivers also play into the crossover, also making poles and things. >> >>> I would try some real time values and listening test. the value should be >> >>> between .3 and .5 mh. If you could measure the R, unwind the coil, >> >>> and measure R, that might tell the extent of the damage. >> >>> >> >>> greg >> >>The link i provided was found with a quick search. >> >>I am guessing its that topology. >> >>Some of the information seems to be conflicting. >> >> >> >> >> >>What do you mean by measure R with the coil wound and unwound? >> >> >> >>Bob >> > >> >Unwinding removes the short. You may actually see where the short is, ir >> >may be welded together. >> > >> >grge >> >> It also determines the R total shorted, and unshorted. >> >> greg > >What good is R shorted or unshorted? I unwrapped the coil. It measured on the > FLuke about >..2 either way. It was burnt down. >to the bottom layer(5 layers or so). And the coils bobbin (plastic) >was melted and deformed) Even with only one layer showing, it >still flunked the ring test. I guess the short could be complex. I was trying to determine what persentage of the wire was shorted. You have to wonder, what exactly is going on here. I would not trust the amp or the tweeter. I would want to insert a fuse next time. greg
From: Peter Larsen on 25 Jan 2007 15:08
BOB Urz wrote: > Strange, this seems to be a 3rd order filter rather than what > the tear sheets says. Nothing strange here, a 24 dB L-R filter can only be claimed implemented if the acoustic output from the units actually have the proper acoustic slopes when combined with the filter. > Bob Regards Peter Larsen |