JSH: Importance of knowledge
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From: David Bernier on 7 Jun 2010 14:12 Jesse F. Hughes wrote: > David Bernier<david250(a)videotron.ca> writes: > >> Jesse F. Hughes wrote: >>> JSH<jstevh(a)gmail.com> writes: >>> >>>> Some posters have claimed that's well-known. If so, then all is well. >>>> >>>> But if not then a fundamental equation of modular arithmetic was >>>> previously just inexplicably missed. >>>> >>>> That opens the door of the unknown. >>>> >>>> So say, some hostile nation finds this out, while the US and Britain >>>> sit on their hands because top mathematicians just, oh, don't feel >>>> like mentioning the result! >>>> >>>> That nation gets a lot of its mathematicians together and puts them on >>>> a fast-paced secret program to exploit the information. >>>> >>>> It takes them a few months but they succeed and get a bonus! >>>> >>>> Learning how to crack RSA--maybe trivial to them by then--they figure >>>> out ways to crack all the other systems as well. >>>> >>>> Months of effort pay off as that nation hacks into computers in the US >>>> and Britain and all over the world, downloads top secret information >>>> from all levels, including nuclear launch codes. >>> >>> This *is* a scary and very believable scenario! >>> >>> If only we hadn't put those darn launch codes on the internet. What >>> were we thinking? >> >> In 1986, Captain Midnight took control of an Eastern USA Home Box Office >> transmission for 4 1/2 minutes ... >> >> Archived at Youtube (before the attack was solved), ABC News broadcast: >> >> < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFlMHCdYXLM> . > > Doesn't seem internet-related though, does it? No, that's true. The Ocala, FL culprit worked part of the time for a company that provided satellite "uplink" services for various clients. With 1000 Watts, he beat the 100 Watt HBO "uplink" from New York. Today though, the world is more connected through the Internet. With sensitive data, there's always the risk of leaks through disgruntled or disloyal employees (the insider threat). It's interesting to wonder about insider vs. outsider risks, but I don't know much about those things. David Bernier
From: Jesse F. Hughes on 7 Jun 2010 15:41 David Bernier <david250(a)videotron.ca> writes: > Jesse F. Hughes wrote: >> David Bernier<david250(a)videotron.ca> writes: >> >>> Jesse F. Hughes wrote: >>>> JSH<jstevh(a)gmail.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> Some posters have claimed that's well-known. If so, then all is well. >>>>> >>>>> But if not then a fundamental equation of modular arithmetic was >>>>> previously just inexplicably missed. >>>>> >>>>> That opens the door of the unknown. >>>>> >>>>> So say, some hostile nation finds this out, while the US and Britain >>>>> sit on their hands because top mathematicians just, oh, don't feel >>>>> like mentioning the result! >>>>> >>>>> That nation gets a lot of its mathematicians together and puts them on >>>>> a fast-paced secret program to exploit the information. >>>>> >>>>> It takes them a few months but they succeed and get a bonus! >>>>> >>>>> Learning how to crack RSA--maybe trivial to them by then--they figure >>>>> out ways to crack all the other systems as well. >>>>> >>>>> Months of effort pay off as that nation hacks into computers in the US >>>>> and Britain and all over the world, downloads top secret information >>>>> from all levels, including nuclear launch codes. >>>> >>>> This *is* a scary and very believable scenario! >>>> >>>> If only we hadn't put those darn launch codes on the internet. What >>>> were we thinking? >>> >>> In 1986, Captain Midnight took control of an Eastern USA Home Box Office >>> transmission for 4 1/2 minutes ... >>> >>> Archived at Youtube (before the attack was solved), ABC News broadcast: >>> >>> < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFlMHCdYXLM> . >> >> Doesn't seem internet-related though, does it? > > No, that's true. The Ocala, FL culprit worked part of the time > for a company that provided satellite "uplink" services for various clients. > With 1000 Watts, he beat the 100 Watt HBO "uplink" from New York. > > Today though, the world is more connected through the Internet. > With sensitive data, there's always the risk of leaks through > disgruntled or disloyal employees (the insider threat). > It's interesting to wonder about insider vs. outsider > risks, but I don't know much about those things. Well, I'd guess that knowing how to decrypt RSA would gain one quite a bit of information he wouldn't otherwise have access to. But I don't think that nuclear launch codes are part of that information. -- Jesse F. Hughes "Mistakes are big part of the discovery process. I make lots of them. Kind of pride myself on it." -- James S. Harris
From: Joshua Cranmer on 7 Jun 2010 17:32 On 06/07/2010 12:02 AM, JSH wrote: > Your arrogance is Western stupidity run amuck. You believe you are > very much advanced from the rest of the world. Obviously, you never heard of the brain drain problem. I am implicitly assuming that the underlying innovation needed requires an education in the upper-echelons of university level; the overwhelming majority of such unis are counted among "the West." The Shanghai ranking includes 0 out of the top 100 (not even one in China!), while Times Higher Education gives Hong Kong at 24, Singapore at 30, and China at 52. South Africa squeezes in at 146 and India at 160. Noticeably not on that list is any universities in the Mideast; also very noticeably dominating is the U.S. The end result is that most of the bright kids in foreign countries end up going abroad; subsequently, many of them tend to stay abroad and not return home. Given that governments have enough trouble trying to keep the brightest at home, I doubt they could get enough people to field an attack on the place where they were educated. -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
From: Ostap Bender on 7 Jun 2010 18:37 On Jun 7, 7:18 am, JSH <jst...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 6, 11:46 pm, Ostap Bender <ostap_bender_1...(a)hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > On Jun 6, 6:26 pm, JSH <jst...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 6, 5:54 pm, Ostap Bender <ostap_bender_1...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 6, 8:37 am, JSH <jst...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 6, 3:46 am, rossum <rossu...(a)coldmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:31:58 -0700 (PDT), JSH <jst...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > >I want to emphasize to all of you that the issue is one of a potential > > > > > > >technological shift. > > > > > > > >If you know your history you should know the importance of technology, > > > > > > >from the military tactics of the Roman legions, to the sailing ships > > > > > > >of Europeans, and the computers of our modern age, the civilizations > > > > > > >with the technological edge, win. > > > > > > > >If a country like North Korea or Iran gets through the door on a major > > > > > > >exploit then you can wake up in a world where technology has shifted > > > > > > >in a way you cannot foresee, > > > > > > > >But the future you may live to witness may be one where the dominant > > > > > > >country is one you would say can't be dominate that fast, or ever, > > > > > > >today. > > > > > > > >Also on the darker side what you cannot imagine now can be very clear > > > > > > >to people later evaluating behaviors around this result. It is not > > > > > > >fun and games if you're facing some people in your home country and > > > > > > >they're asking you why you did not do what they would have expected. > > > > > > > >Depending on the country what you say then, or what you can say, may > > > > > > >mean life or death for you. > > > > > > > >So some readers around the world are now in a more delicate position > > > > > > >for that reason alone, regardless of anything else. > > > > > > > >Because in your country, doing nothing may be seen as a failed test of > > > > > > >loyalty. A betrayal of your state. A failure to your country and its > > > > > > >leaders. > > > > > > > >James Harris > > > > > > > Welcome back James. I hope you enjoyed your self-imposed exile from > > > > > > sci.math. I look forward to your latest mathematical musings.. > > > > > > Usenet gives me more information than I get from other sources and > > > > > does so rapidly, so I found I still needed to use it. I've already > > > > > received interesting, if not valuable feedback now. > > > > > > Trouble is, without you people I'm mostly left debating with myself > > > > > about what's going on, and some of you actually are fairly decent at > > > > > finding what was previously known, and you know the process fairly > > > > > well for how papers move through math society. > > > > > > So I made the hard decision. It was the logical one given the > > > > > circumstances. > > > > > > > Have you had anything back yet from the Annals of Mathematics on the > > > > > > paper you sent them about residues? > > > > > > > rossum > > > > > > I'm replying because of that important question. Yes, they > > > > > acknowledged receipt the next day. > > > > > > I hope they don't mind me giving a copy of their reply. I guess it's > > > > > not like most of you would ever see one of these in your lifetimes > > > > > unless a wannabe author shows you (oh, I think I did years ago anyway > > > > > with a previous submission which was ultimately rejected), and why > > > > > would any of the major figures who usually submit to them, do so? So > > > > > I apologize to the Annals upfront, but it's not like there's a lot in > > > > > the reply, and I'll redact the name of the staffer who sent it. > > > > > > Here's a copy of their reply (contact redacted): > > > > > > <quote> > > > > > Dear Dr. Harris, > > > > > > We have received your submission, "Solving residues" as well as test > > > > > program and have forwarded them to the appropriate editor. > > > > > > We will contact you when we have any further information concerning > > > > > your paper. > > > > > > Thank you for your submission. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > *** **** > > > > > Annals staff > > > > > </quote> > > > > > > So things may be going ok. Hey, maybe I'm jumping the gun babbling > > > > > about this on Usenet as if things aren't! > > > > > > But it's been over two weeks. How long should it take with a trivial > > > > > to derive result, in such a big area as modular arithmetic, which > > > > > might have implications for integer factorization? > > > > > The way it usually works is that several weeks or months after > > > > receiving your submitted paper, somebody will look at it long enough > > > > to see what filed of study it's in, and then assign 3 or 4 experts to > > > > read it. They are asked to do this in several months, but they are > > > > often busy. Thus, it takes many months or even years for the initial > > > > reviews to come back. And often, the answer is not "yes" or "no", but > > > > "maybe", depending on problems and questions the reviewers raise. > > > > Thus, it will take a second iteration. > > > > That's with a normal result. > > > > Hopefully you are correct along with Mark Murray in claiming that I've > > > given a previously well-known result, as otherwise if it is a miss at > > > the heart of modular arithmetic then there are national security > > > implications. > > > Math journal reviewers are usually professors who don't work for > > national security agencies. In fact, your reviewers are most likely > > not to be American citizens. They can be Chinese or Indians or > > Russians or French. Thus, the time that they will take in reviewing > > your paper will be determined by how busy they and their grad students > > are. > > > > Then a false statement in this context could be a big deal. > > > If you think that your work is important to the US national security, > > contact the NSA, CIA and the FBI. Make sure to treat them the way you > > treat your sci.math readers. They'll appreciate it. > > > > I know many of you are so used to making outlandish statements and > > > hearing threats of serious repercussions that the concept of national > > > security people actually interested in what you said seems ludicrous. > > > You are strongly advised to contact NSA, CIA and the FBI immediately.. > > Contacting local university medical schools and hospitals may be an > > other venue for you to consider. > > Have you ever TRIED to contact the NSA or CIA? No. Why would I? > Best I managed with > the NSA was their public affairs office. And I've yet to see a way to > contact the CIA. > > The FBI is easier but they're not math people. I've yet to get a > reply from them on anything math related. How often do you contact them, on average per year? > It's DAMN hard to contact the NSA or CIA about anything. Not a > trivial exercise for an American citizen. Yes, they seem to be trying to minimize crank calls from various idiots. > If you (or anyone else) have a contact, please give it. > > If you can't give it out on Usenet, then feel free to email it to me, > which you should be able to do by replying to this post by email. > > I am serious here. This situation is not a game. If you feel an incredible sense of urgency and can't cope with it, and the CIA, NSA and FBI can't help you, you should consider contacting your local university: either their medical school or the university hospital itself. Have you tried the local police yet? They are the ones to deal with local emergencies.
From: JSH on 7 Jun 2010 20:06
On Jun 7, 9:47 am, Rotwang <sg...(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > JSH wrote: > > > [...] > > > Have you ever TRIED to contact the NSA or CIA? Best I managed with > > the NSA was their public affairs office. And I've yet to see a way to > > contact the CIA. > > How abouthttps://www.cia.gov/contact-cia/index.html? > > Link found through my high-level top-secret contacts that most people > can only dream of (Google). Oh cool, must be an Obama change. That wasn't there under Bush. But what would I tell them? Evil math people are hiding important research that could endanger world security? How far would I get with that? The NSA would be better but it looks like they have the same contact page they had under Bush. Tweak Obama's administration to get them to be nicer like the CIA. At least with them I could beat up on math people talking to math people. Good link though. Who knows? I may need it someday. Nice to know they finally put something like that up. James Harris |