JSH: Yeah fame is weird
in [Math]
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From: JSH on 14 Jun 2010 22:35 On Jun 14, 7:03 pm, Jim Ferry <corkleb...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 14, 7:48 pm, JSH <jst...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 14, 9:56 am, Jim Ferry <corkleb...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 13, 11:51 am, JSH <jst...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > But you may say, you KNOW fame, and there's no way that any of that > > > > matters as you don't see me on television, don't read newspaper > > > > articles about me. I'm not on Youtube even! How can I be famous? > > > > Now you're talking about fame at the level of hundreds of thousands to > > > hundreds of millions. So yes, you're famous. But not that famous. > > > Really? How do you know? > > I guesstimated. Yeah, like I said, everybody has their own idea of "fame". That characterizes such guesses. > > > > Well it turns out that I'm read in about 120 countries according to > > > > Google Analytics just for hits to my math blog, on a yearly basis. > > > > > A lot of people narrowly define fame around celebrity, and ten around > > > > the most visible celebrities, or around some vague notion of it that > > > > makes sense to them. > > > > Right, you're not in the top 10, but you may be in the top 10 million, > > > which is to say, in the 99.9 percentile of fame. > > > Coverage in 120+ countries is actually a different kind of fame than > > most imagine. Most people are focused on their own countries. So for > > instance in the US a lot of British pop stars are relatively unknown, > > and French pop stars even less so, though thousands still know of > > them. > > People in 120+ countries reading your blog does sound impressive. It > would be interesting to know what the typical reader thinks. This > would seem to be difficult data to gather, however, and could not be > reliably inferred from blog comments because of selection bias. Yeah, tell me about it. I've been wondering for years!!! > > For instance, lately on mymath blog comments have come in Chinese, > > which tests my ability to evaluate them as I use Google Translate. > > > That is consistent with the theory. > > > If my research is growing in China, what makes you think you'd know? > > I wouldn't know. Spinal Tap had to inform Rob Reiner that they were > huge in Japan. He didn't know beforehand. I'm actually apparently doing ok in Japan with my Class Viewer program. Or maybe not, I digress. > China is exciting. Truly a fertile field in which to plant your > mathematical seeds. How could I possibly know if the seeds are > growing or not in this foreign clime on which I have no data? This is Yeah, but I DO. It amazes me how small the world is to posters on Usenet. While to me it is so huge. I try to imagine all those countries. Know how many cities? I just went to Google Analytics: 2486 cities So yeah, when posters like you rip on me and insult me, or calmly inform me that I have nothing or that my ideas are muddled or whatever floats through your little heads, I have to ask myself, why do you put yourself up over people in 2486 cities? How DARE you? And those posters who reply back that they all come to laugh? How would they know? It's that kind of arrogance that defines narrow minds. > an excellent point, James. In my mind's eye I see thousands of > Chinese farmers tearing open packets of these made-in-America seeds > and planting them in their fields. Packets with bright balloony > letters on them which read "Pop Rocks". A hundred years from now vast > Pop Rock forests may spread across China, tended by bright candy > Ents. I have no data to the contrary. > > > My math is growing, worldwide. > > "Math": You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you > think it means. Do you think at all? > > As it grows its influence will eventually be greater than that of the > > currently established number theory. And its students will replace > > the current math society, worldwide. > > Really? How do you know? Because it is correct. You can rip on me in Usenet posts, that's easy. You can reply as if my being read in 120 countries on a yearly basis is easily comprehensible to you. But that's just a mental conceit. The world is a competitive place dude. My math is in competition with a lot of other information out there. That's reality. But Usenet is its own special place. There's a feeling of power in the reply. But you cannot match me. Not really. You can reply to me, but you cannot match me. James Harris
From: Joshua Cranmer on 14 Jun 2010 22:57 On 06/14/2010 09:36 PM, JSH wrote: > A better comparison is singing. Singers can become very popular but > most end up famous in their home countries while a few cover most of > the world, say over 200 countries. ABBA (Swedish). O-Zone (Romanian). Both of those have produced hits well known to people in many countries; at least, enough to ensure that people trip up over identifying Dragostea din tei as Romanians as opposed to <insert any European language here>. > Besides, how do you know I'm not known to hundreds of millions outside > of the US? The total number of people in the world who have used the Internet in the world is probably between about 1-1.5 billion people. Excluding the U.S., there is around 1.25 billion people (picking a roundish number). For you to be known by 100 million, 2 out of every 25 people with internet access would have to know about you. Breaking down further, a primary use of internet in the developing world is for finance. Numbers to me suggest about a further 250 million people or so who would not be able to use the internet to find results about math. You seem to discount Europe or any of the west as actually mattering, so let's knock off a further 300 million for Internet users in the West outside of the U.S. Of the rest, you'd probably first have to look to people with at least a high school degree--algebraic integers aren't exactly covered in high school courses--so that is well over half the rest, I'll say 400 million people. Out of the rest, you'd have to have 1 in 3 people to know about you. I think it would be more likely that I prove P = NP in my PhD thesis than that many people know you. >> A site which isn't practically usable outside of a very specific locale > > What's the site? It is an intranet site for a secondary school institution. > Why do you say it's useless to them? Everything beyond the front page is behind a login wall. And about the most that would be useful behind that wall is announcements. Or possibly people's schedules if you're a stalker, but I doubt people from the United Arab Emirates are attempting to stalk people at a secondary school institution. > American and British mathematicians claim to be the best in the world. > > I'm not making that up. And so does anyone with a hint of credibility at that claim. > What if they blew everyone else away like they didn't exist, except > for the parts disproven by mymath, don't you think the world might > notice? Perhaps. I think you have no clue what really goes on standard international examinations, though. -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
From: Joshua Cranmer on 14 Jun 2010 23:13 On 06/14/2010 10:35 PM, JSH wrote: > So yeah, when posters like you rip on me and insult me, or calmly > inform me that I have nothing or that my ideas are muddled or whatever > floats through your little heads, I have to ask myself, why do you put > yourself up over people in 2486 cities? To quote someone in another book, "A lot of a little is... a little of a lot." You sound impressed over having 2,486 cities. But the number by itself is meaningless, since there is no context with which to compare it to. I would cite my blog's count as comparison, but, of course, I've never bothered to compute that since I really don't care; even if I did care, the number I calculate would be unrepresentative of the real count. In short: please give us a concrete numerical comparison before you start dickwaving. Otherwise, I suspect you have about as much basis to compare on as I do which is pretty much "nothing". -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
From: JSH on 14 Jun 2010 23:30 On Jun 14, 7:57 pm, Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeo...(a)verizon.invalid> wrote: > On 06/14/2010 09:36 PM, JSH wrote: > > > A better comparison is singing. Singers can become very popular but > > most end up famous in their home countries while a few cover most of > > the world, say over 200 countries. > > ABBA (Swedish). O-Zone (Romanian). Both of those have produced hits well > known to people in many countries; at least, enough to ensure that > people trip up over identifying Dragostea din tei as Romanians as > opposed to <insert any European language here>. Yeah coincidentally I was just listening to them on vevo. > > Besides, how do you know I'm not known to hundreds of millions outside > > of the US? > > The total number of people in the world who have used the Internet in > the world is probably between about 1-1.5 billion people. Excluding the Why would they have to be on the Internet? How many people can a person talk to off the Internet? If he or she is spreading information? > U.S., there is around 1.25 billion people (picking a roundish number). > For you to be known by 100 million, 2 out of every 25 people with > internet access would have to know about you. > > Breaking down further, a primary use of internet in the developing world > is for finance. Numbers to me suggest about a further 250 million people > or so who would not be able to use the internet to find results about > math. You seem to discount Europe or any of the west as actually > mattering, so let's knock off a further 300 million for Internet users > in the West outside of the U.S. Of the rest, you'd probably first have I don't discount Europe. I specifically said that US and British math people have the habit of thinking they're the best. I've actually been fascinated by country counts from Finland among others. But mymath blog gets hits from all of Europe. > to look to people with at least a high school degree--algebraic integers > aren't exactly covered in high school courses--so that is well over half > the rest, I'll say 400 million people. Out of the rest, you'd have to > have 1 in 3 people to know about you. I think it would be more likely > that I prove P = NP in my PhD thesis than that many people know you. I'd be shocked if millions of people knew of me, let alone hundreds of millions. Regardless, reality is you have no clue how many people might know of me. It's a big world, and not everything has to travel over the Internet. People can learn things off the Internet and transmit it to others by other means. > >> A site which isn't practically usable outside of a very specific locale > > > What's the site? > > It is an intranet site for a secondary school institution. Ok, are you talking server data or data from Google Analytics? Or some other analytics software? Also, how do you know where people who've gone to that school at any time in its history have gone? Regardless most of the hits you mention could be pings sent for any number of reasons. I suspect you're giving server data and it's a place where you work which is why you're so coy about details. Server data doesn't compare against data from Google Analytics as for instance, they wouldn't include pings. > > Why do you say it's useless to them? > > Everything beyond the front page is behind a login wall. And about the > most that would be useful behind that wall is announcements. Or possibly > people's schedules if you're a stalker, but I doubt people from the > United Arab Emirates are attempting to stalk people at a secondary > school institution. Why? > > American and British mathematicians claim to be the best in the world. > > > I'm not making that up. > > And so does anyone with a hint of credibility at that claim. > > > What if they blew everyone else away like they didn't exist, except > > for the parts disproven by mymath, don't you think the world might > > notice? > > Perhaps. I think you have no clue what really goes on standard > international examinations, though. I've looked some over. Looks tedious. And "perhaps"? If the Chinese walked in and blew everyone away except on subjects related to, say, Galois Theory, where they simply failed, no one would notice that? My research throws out Galois Theory almost entirely. It leaves only the quintic proof. James Harris
From: Jesse F. Hughes on 15 Jun 2010 09:10
JSH <jstevh(a)gmail.com> writes: > Regardless most of the hits you mention could be pings sent for any > number of reasons. > > I suspect you're giving server data and it's a place where you work > which is why you're so coy about details. Server data doesn't compare > against data from Google Analytics as for instance, they wouldn't > include pings. Pings don't show up in web logs. More than likely, he's seeing traffic from bots -- just as you are for some percentage of your hits. Spammers have programs to scan websites for email addresses, for instance. These programs are indistinguishable from a human reader, except possibly by looking closely at behavior. For instance, some of my hits come from a single IP address that methodically views every page of the site. That's a bot, but aside from really looking at the behavior, I wouldn't know. (I imagine other bots are less obvious.) -- Jesse F. Hughes "You shouldn't hate Mother Mathematics." -- James S. Harris |