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From: Zerkon on 3 May 2010 06:44
On Sun, 02 May 2010 17:01:13 -0400, George Hammond wrote:

> LAD

If life after death, life before birth might answer the same questions.

> he first structural rule must be that you can never observe a calendar
> day

This rule is a breezy way of dodging time. "calendar date" is an attempt
to mark the instant of death not the relationship between the sun and the
earth because if so this life after is corporal in nature. This 'instant'
needs explanation and the relevance of 'day'.

> People you 'see' in heaven..

The optical system having not died... you see stuff?

> Visions from the past...

Memory capability remains

> Beatification

Does this aesthetic sense remain or formed after death. Is it uniform?


You may or may not find solace in this LAD fact. Children are the life
after death to individuals and the entire group of the species. So other
than worms turds and St. Peter may this is a easier way to explain this.
From: George Hammond on 3 May 2010 16:17
On Mon, 3 May 2010 02:14:03 -0700 (PDT),
"bigfletch8(a)gmail.com" <bigfletch8(a)gmail.com> wrote:


>
>
<snip ... line item non sequitors and ad hominem wisecracks
>
[Hammond]
Your commentary is uninformed not to say totally clueless
and full of boring amateur philosophy spew.
The motive for your posting seem to be a mixture of envy
and simple narcissim.
In the meantime it is obvious you have no real interest
or competence in the problem of the existence or
non-existence of Life After Death.... you are simply another
wannabee without even the saving grace of insight or
originality.


Besides, the question here is:

IS THERE LIFE AFTER DEATH .... YES OR NO ?

and

YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE AN OPINION, APPARENTLY BEING UNAWARE
THAT THE ENTIRE WORLD HAS BEEN DEBATING THE ISSUE FOR 5,000
YEARS !!

THAT MAKES YOU A CLUELESS BORE..... BY ANY STANDARD !
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
From: George Hammond on 4 May 2010 00:23
On Mon, 3 May 2010 02:14:03 -0700 (PDT),
"bigfletch8(a)gmail.com" <bigfletch8(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
SNIP
>
>
[Hammond]
By the way BOfL, turns out you are NOT a physicist... I
had you confused with someone else.

From your Google posting record you are apparenly a
"philawsephy" major and spend most of your time commenting
on amateur odd ball subjects on the non-hard-science yak-yak
newsgroups.

This would explain the utter lack of any hard science or
technically compent content in your post.

Obviously you have nothing of interest to say to me.
Sorry I bothered you.... case of mistaken identity.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
From: Immortalist on 4 May 2010 01:22
On May 2, 2:01 pm, George Hammond <Nowhe...(a)notspam.com> wrote:
> LOGICAL PECULIARITIES OF LIFE AFTER DEATH
>
> Copyright George Hammond 2010
>
> Note: "LAD" = "Life After Death"
>
> Note: Please point out any logical inconsistencies
>
> It occurs to me that there must be certain structural
> rules as to what can or cannot occur in life after death
> (LAD). If we assume that LAD is basically a revisitation of
> Earthly life, then the first thing we deduce is that it
> cannot be possible for you to return to Earth at a date
> later your date of death. The reason for this is simple; it
> would be possible for you to meet someone who had attended
> your funeral or read your obituary and knew that you were
> already dead. This would present an illogical paradox which
> cannot be allowed in our scientific view of LAD.
>

What if there were a perfectly good explanation as to why you have
reappeared on earth. In the future it may be possible to create
"resurrection machines" like the brain works now constantly
resurrecting each of us throughout each day. If so then I doubt it
would be disturbing that people were walking around after the date of
their natural death. (just for the sake of argument I am pointing out
that in logic what you describe is contingent and not necessary)

Were you possible before you were born? If not how could you have
possibly been born? Where does that possibility go when you die? It
may be possible for us to exist throughout the time that this universe
exists. I am not saying we will but that if biology and evolution have
discovered the possibilities of me and you why could we humans learn
to emulate these biological and evolutionary events?

> So the first structural rule must be that you can never
> observe a calendar day which postdates the date of your
> death. Likewise, you apparently cannot meet people who are
> already dead in Heaven at a date later than the date of
> their death either, because other people still alive would
> likewise notice them also!
>

This argument seems to make the possibility of LAD less likely.

> This it would appear is not a great problem. In the first
> place we expect that LAD will largely be a biographical life
> review, in other words most of it will take place in the
> past. Visions from your childhood your adolescence,
> middle-age etc. etc. etc. All of this occurred long before
> your death.
>

This argument seems to make the possibility of LAD even less likely.

> So I assume in the first place that it is not true that
> the only people you see in Heaven are people who are already
> dead- in fact just the opposite is true... you only see
> dead people by returning to an earlier date when both you
> and they, were both alive! Most of the people you see in
> Heaven will probably still be alive on Earth, however, you
> will not see them after the date of your death.
>

At this point you have almost destroyed the possibility of any LAD
according to your logic.

> Now arises the question of Beatification. One assumes
> that the first principle or essential-reason for life after
> death is the Beatification of the body and obtaining the
> Beatific Vision. So the question is; will you be walking
> around in the world with a Beatified body and looking like
> God himself? Obviously this would present a problem, indeed
> you would obviously start a riot if you ever appeared in
> public in such a form. Okay then, I presume then that the
> Beatification must be mental rather than physical at least
> during the period of life review. In other words you will
> revisit old situations and old scenes but you will see them
> with "new eyes" and perhaps with a new body sensorially
> speaking but not a new body appearance wise. In other words
> you will be transformed or beatified psychologically and
> spiritually but your appearance will not change.
>
> This of course is getting complicated and it appears to
> be the beginning of complications for the theory. For
> instance if you revisit an old scene and with your newfound
> powers act differently, this would alter the entire history
> of your life.... so what would become of the rest of the
> life review? We simply can't believe that you live life all
> over again in a completely altered form and totally new
> course of events. That is simply too complicated. No, if
> there is LAD, I think you must simply revisit the old scenes
> but see them with new eyes... and this ever-increasing
> Beatific perception of your past life builds finally to a
> level of complete Beatific Vision at the end of your life
> history. In other words you revisit your entire past life
> with an "invisible" transformed spirit but wearing your old
> body appearancewise in the various scenarios. Apparently,
> you don't do anything differently that would alter the
> recorded biography of your life.
> On the other hand there may be additional scenarios that
> are not part of a conventional biographical life review in
> which you may take different actions and do or accomplish
> additional things without logically upsetting your world
> history.
> Naturally if you have a Beatified body you would
> certainly want to run and jump and water-ski and drive a
> sports car at 150 miles an hour and experience all the
> pleasures of a perfect body. There is certainly no reason
> why you couldn't do this without altering the course of
> world history or your own recorded biography. Consider for
> a moment how complex an ordinary nocturnal dream is, and yet
> while you're experiencing the dream nothing seems logically
> impossible. We must assume that the same power is at work
> in LAD if it exists.
>
> Meanwhile I am still trying to develop an overall opinion
> as to the probability of the existence of LAD.

Its as probable as life is now. As long as all the necessary and
sufficient conditions are met, like they are now in the activities of
your body and specifically the activities of your nervous system, your
life happens. I doubt if there evolved another place that is similar
to earth and biology on it, that is on its own like it did here on
earth, at the same time it did on earth, but who know, it is not
determinable either way.

Once thing seems evident though, and that is it must be possible for
us to exist right now.

> In the first
> place, I now believe if it exists that it is, or must be, a
> revisit with full bodily senses of our everyday worldly
> environment.... but of course this environment is actually
> what we call a "virtual reality".... even though it looks
> exactly like the Earth we just left! If this is true, what
> it means is that we must have a DOUBLE BODY! The neuronal
> system of the brain is the first body and the microtubule
> system of the brain constitutes a SECOND BODY! Hence if we
> have two bodies we experience two lives before we finally
> expire permanently. In the Microtubule-Body we achieve the
> Beatific vision which by definition is a condition of
> "eternal life" because it has ZERO TIME DILATION .
>
> So the previous paragraph brings us around to the
> question of the scientific explanation of the SOUL . The
> microtubule system in the brain must in fact be the physical
> embodiment of the SOUL !
>
> So it turns out the Greeks were correct, the Soul is
> IMMORTAL, and now we know WHY!
>

I doubt that there are forms that exist out there like souls of
everything that could possibly exist but there are at least "possible
patterns" that can take place and I doubt that the self is immortal
but is an "immortal possibility" if the right conditions are met. This
probably with human technology that imitates nature in the far future.

> George Hammond, M.S. Physics
>
> Reference: The Scientific Proof of God:http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/Hammond5s1.html
> ========================================
> GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
> Primary sitehttp://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
> Mirror site
> http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
> HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
> http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
> =======================================

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_CqOd1zSxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuxB3GWwKes
From: George Hammond on 4 May 2010 02:40
On Mon, 3 May 2010 22:22:27 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
<reanimater_2000(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 2, 2:01 pm, George Hammond <Nowhe...(a)notspam.com> wrote:
>> LOGICAL PECULIARITIES OF LIFE AFTER DEATH
>>
>> Copyright George Hammond 2010
>>
>> Note: "LAD" = "Life After Death"
>>
>> Note: Please point out any logical inconsistencies
>>
>> It occurs to me that there must be certain structural
>> rules as to what can or cannot occur in life after death
>> (LAD). If we assume that LAD is basically a revisitation of
>> Earthly life, then the first thing we deduce is that it
>> cannot be possible for you to return to Earth at a date
>> later your date of death. The reason for this is simple; it
>> would be possible for you to meet someone who had attended
>> your funeral or read your obituary and knew that you were
>> already dead. This would present an illogical paradox which
>> cannot be allowed in our scientific view of LAD.
>>
>
>[Immortalist]
>What if there were a perfectly good explanation as to why you have
>reappeared on earth. In the future it may be possible to create
>"resurrection machines" like the brain works now constantly
>resurrecting each of us throughout each day. If so then I doubt it
>would be disturbing that people were walking around after the date of
>their natural death. (just for the sake of argument I am pointing out
>that in logic what you describe is contingent and not necessary)
>
>
>
[Hammond]
Prof. Frank Tipler has already done what you're talking
about in his celebrated 1994 book entitled "The Physics of
Immortality". So you're not telling us anything new.
What I'm here to tell you is that you don't have to build
Tipler's astronomically sized computer to do the job..... a
far more probably in my opinion is that the newly discovered
microtubule computer already extant in the brain actually
does just exactly that.... resurrects us to "Heaven" after
we die! So please.... were not interested in talking about
science fiction here for Christ sakes! we're here to debate
scientific fact!
>
>
>
>Were you possible before you were born?
>
>
[Hammond}
I didn't exist before I was born... end of argument!
No DNA, no microtubules, no brain cells.... no physical
structure called Hammond existed! this is NOT the same
situation as Hammond 1 second after death! 1 second after
death my microtubules system is still functioning and could
easily produce a "full virtual reality world and body"for me
that would constitute "life after death"so-called.
Now that is not a SCIENCE FICTION proposal.... that is a
credible and competent SCIENTIFIC THEORY.
>
>
>
snip
>
>> So the first structural rule must be that you can never
>> observe a calendar day which postdates the date of your
>> death. Likewise, you apparently cannot meet people who are
>> already dead in Heaven at a date later than the date of
>> their death either, because other people still alive would
>> likewise notice them also!
>>
>
>This argument seems to make the possibility of LAD less likely.
>
>
[Hammond]
hardly. The devil is in the details... and here we see a
situation where the details actually work out and fit the
theory. It is a success or failure of this kind of detailed
analysis that gives us an intuition as to whether or not the
theory is actually true. So far I haven't seen any detail
that indicates that the theory is wrong! perhaps you could
think of one..... i.e. some reason why my microtubule theory
of life after death is impossible. until I hear of such a
detail I'm going to continue to believe the theory is quite
possibly correct!
>
>
>
>> This it would appear is not a great problem. In the first
>> place we expect that LAD will largely be a biographical life
>> review, in other words most of it will take place in the
>> past. Visions from your childhood your adolescence,
>> middle-age etc. etc. etc. All of this occurred long before
>> your death.
>>
>
>This argument seems to make the possibility of LAD even less likely.
>
>
>
{Hammond]
Na.... as pointed out above, the microtubule-cytoskeleton
life after death the scheme HANDILY beats back all of these
objections. In fact there is no credible scientific
objection to the theory at this point. even Stuart Hameroff
himself, The world's leading authority on microtubules, said
that he thinks the theory is "possible"! see letter from
Prof. Stuart Hameroff here::
http://independent.academia.edu/GeorgeHammond/Blog/1351/Microtubules-and-Life-After-Death
>
>
>
>
>> So I assume in the first place that it is not true that
>> the only people you see in Heaven are people who are already
>> dead- in fact just the opposite is true... you only see
>> dead people by returning to an earlier date when both you
>> and they, were both alive! Most of the people you see in
>> Heaven will probably still be alive on Earth, however, you
>> will not see them after the date of your death.
>>
>
>At this point you have almost destroyed the possibility of any LAD
>according to your logic.
>
>
>
[Hammond]
Na... that's an unsupported assertion.... no one is swayed
by unsupported assertions.... you have to explain WHY you
are making the assertion. Obviously your assertion makes no
sense whatsoever.
>
>
>> Now arises the question of Beatification. One assumes
>> that the first principle or essential-reason for life after
>> death is the Beatification of the body and obtaining the
>> Beatific Vision. So the question is; will you be walking
>> around in the world with a Beatified body and looking like
>> God himself? Obviously this would present a problem, indeed
>> you would obviously start a riot if you ever appeared in
>> public in such a form. Okay then, I presume then that the
>> Beatification must be mental rather than physical at least
>> during the period of life review. In other words you will
>> revisit old situations and old scenes but you will see them
>> with "new eyes" and perhaps with a new body sensorially
>> speaking but not a new body appearance wise. In other words
>> you will be transformed or beatified psychologically and
>> spiritually but your appearance will not change.
>>
>> This of course is getting complicated and it appears to
>> be the beginning of complications for the theory. For
>> instance if you revisit an old scene and with your newfound
>> powers act differently, this would alter the entire history
>> of your life.... so what would become of the rest of the
>> life review? We simply can't believe that you live life all
>> over again in a completely altered form and totally new
>> course of events. That is simply too complicated. No, if
>> there is LAD, I think you must simply revisit the old scenes
>> but see them with new eyes... and this ever-increasing
>> Beatific perception of your past life builds finally to a
>> level of complete Beatific Vision at the end of your life
>> history. In other words you revisit your entire past life
>> with an "invisible" transformed spirit but wearing your old
>> body appearancewise in the various scenarios. Apparently,
>> you don't do anything differently that would alter the
>> recorded biography of your life.
>> On the other hand there may be additional scenarios that
>> are not part of a conventional biographical life review in
>> which you may take different actions and do or accomplish
>> additional things without logically upsetting your world
>> history.
>> Naturally if you have a Beatified body you would
>> certainly want to run and jump and water-ski and drive a
>> sports car at 150 miles an hour and experience all the
>> pleasures of a perfect body. There is certainly no reason
>> why you couldn't do this without altering the course of
>> world history or your own recorded biography. Consider for
>> a moment how complex an ordinary nocturnal dream is, and yet
>> while you're experiencing the dream nothing seems logically
>> impossible. We must assume that the same power is at work
>> in LAD if it exists.
>>
>> Meanwhile I am still trying to develop an overall opinion
>> as to the probability of the existence of LAD.
>
>Its as probable as life is now.
>
>
[Hammond]
that's just another handwaving unsupported assertion drawn
from elementary philosophy..... it has no weight in a
detailed scientific discussion such as this.
>
>
> As long as all the necessary and
>sufficient conditions are met, like they are now in the activities of
>your body and specifically the activities of your nervous system, your
>life happens. I doubt if there evolved another place that is similar
>to earth and biology on it, that is on its own like it did here on
>earth, at the same time it did on earth, but who know, it is not
>determinable either way.
>
>Once thing seems evident though, and that is it must be possible for
>us to exist right now.
>
>
>
[Hammond]
well okay now you're saying something.... what you're
saying is that you find the idea of a "virtual reality"
afterlife to be credible. but that's simply puts you in the
camp of hundreds of millions of Christians who believe the
same thing for 2000 years.... and yet none of them can PROVE
IT or even present a credible scientific proposal for how it
would work.
I am the first one in history to present a credible
scientific proposal for how it could work...and that is what
we are here to discuss.
HOWEVER.... I do find that your philosophical opinion that
the idea of a "virtual" or "spiritual" afterlife is credible
to be yet another weighty piece of "intuitive" evidence
supporting the theory.
>
>
>
>> In the first
>> place, I now believe if it exists that it is, or must be, a
>> revisit with full bodily senses of our everyday worldly
>> environment.... but of course this environment is actually
>> what we call a "virtual reality".... even though it looks
>> exactly like the Earth we just left! If this is true, what
>> it means is that we must have a DOUBLE BODY! The neuronal
>> system of the brain is the first body and the microtubule
>> system of the brain constitutes a SECOND BODY! Hence if we
>> have two bodies we experience two lives before we finally
>> expire permanently. In the Microtubule-Body we achieve the
>> Beatific vision which by definition is a condition of
>> "eternal life" because it has ZERO TIME DILATION .
>>
>> So the previous paragraph brings us around to the
>> question of the scientific explanation of the SOUL . The
>> microtubule system in the brain must in fact be the physical
>> embodiment of the SOUL !
>>
>> So it turns out the Greeks were correct, the Soul is
>> IMMORTAL, and now we know WHY!
>>
>
>I doubt that there are forms that exist out there like souls of
>everything that could possibly exist but there are at least "possible
>patterns" that can take place and I doubt that the self is immortal
>but is an "immortal possibility" if the right conditions are met. This
>probably with human technology that imitates nature in the far future.
>
>
>
[Hammond]
Na... you apparently misunderstand what I'm saying... what
I'm saying is that IF the cytoskeleton-microtubule system
actually does produce an electronic signal which floods the
entire cytoskeleton of the body and produces a state of
consciousness correctly called a "virtual reality"; then I
argue that what else could we properly call this microtubule
system other than the name "SOUL" !!
>
>> George Hammond, M.S. Physics
>>
>> Reference: The Scientific Proof of God:http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/Hammond5s1.html
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
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