Laptop and an expansion box questions??????
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From: PeoplesChoice on 9 Jul 2010 14:14 Please see my response below: On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 09:41:08 -0700, Mike Easter <MikeE(a)ster.invalid> wrote: >PeoplesChoice(a)Chicago.net wrote: > >> Comments please! (from anyone). > >In the beginning, you started this thread with questions about a LT >laptop to have the same computer on both ends between RI and TX. > >Some of us were saying it was easier to have a modest DT computer on >both ends and something 'light' to travel with - or even just travel >with a portable hdd or I have preferred a removable hdd (tray/caddy) in >the past. > >Nowadays you can have an external/portable SATA at SATA speeds instead >of USB bottleneck/chokepoint. > >But now you are describing some pretty elaborate functions for the >computer you may build. Does that mean that you want all of this >functionality on both ends of RI and TX, or that you only want some of >the functions on both ends and other functions at one end? The short answer is 'yes.' But the two desktops might not be exactly the same - depending on the house. But my plan, as of right now, IS to make them exactly the same. I'm sorry to confuse you - and I wasn't really aware that there is a GROUP of you that are following this thread. The fact that there is a group makes me feel more comfortable in embarking on building a desktop (I still don't understand the difference between a desktop and a workstation). The more (educated) opinions, the better. Now, I spend most of the time in RI because my mother-in-law has dementia and lives in an assisted living home. At some point, she will go into a nursing home. My wife is her "guardian". We are legally residents of Texas and own a home there - but spend the majority of time in RI where my MIL lives. Every few months, we go there for three weeks. In the future, it may extend to four weeks - depends on my MIL's condition. When the inevitable happens, we will move to Texas permanently. I don't like living in two places - but circumstances dictate it. Whichever home I'm in, I want to have the same (more or less) capabilities with the computer. Unfortunately, that means having duplicates of many components. I'd like to keep this to a minimum, but haven't completely thought it through. I need help!! My wife and I have a laptop now (a simple HP Pavilion) and it suffices for Internet and email. By traveling, I meant just going back and forth between Texas and RI - not on the road. But I am a computer enthusiast and want what I want - in both places. I hope this explanation describes my situation. I don't really need a laptop of my own if I'm going to build two computers. At the time, I was just thinking I could get away with a super laptop and plug in all my (duplicate) peripherals where ever I was at the time. You (the group) have convinced me that I should consider the removeable hard drive path - and that's where my head is at now. It seems to me that having my duplicate Desktop in both places would be a lot less expensive than a super laptop (which would never serve my needs completely anyway). Also, replacing a super laptop every few years is something I don't really want to do either. Besides, I've always wanted to be able to build a desktop and it seems like this would be that opportunity (with the help of 'the group'. I'm assuming I could keep up with technology for a longer period of time with destops that I build myself by changing components. I know I need good advice, though, as I'm proceeding. If you need anything more to clarify my position, please ask so we get off in the right direction. Thanks for your interest............ Bob
From: Mike Easter on 9 Jul 2010 15:04 PeoplesChoice(a)Chicago.net wrote: > Now, I spend most of the time in RI because my mother-in-law has dementia > and lives in an assisted living home. At some point, she will go into a > nursing home. I mostly have that picture. Does that mean that your MIL (and/or daughter) have a full-on home in RI - likely the home that your MIL used to live in before she moved into the assisted living quarters? > Whichever home I'm > in, I want to have the same (more or less) capabilities with the > computer. Unfortunately, that means having duplicates of many > components. I'd like to keep this to a minimum, but haven't completely > thought it through. I need help!! It would seem to me that your relationship with your computer would be different in the two places. In RI you and your wife are together and there would also be a computer there. I sense that in TX, you and your computer are together :-) It seems like you need a different computer environment in TX than RI, but I'm just guessing. > It seems to me that having my duplicate Desktop in both places > would be a lot less expensive than a super laptop (which would never > serve my needs completely anyway). Or maybe not exactly duplicate. It seems like TX needs a different kind of rig than RI. -- Mike Easter
From: PeoplesChoice on 9 Jul 2010 16:00 On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:04:55 -0700, Mike Easter <MikeE(a)ster.invalid> wrote: >PeoplesChoice(a)Chicago.net wrote: > >> Now, I spend most of the time in RI because my mother-in-law has dementia >> and lives in an assisted living home. At some point, she will go into a >> nursing home. > >I mostly have that picture. Does that mean that your MIL (and/or >daughter) have a full-on home in RI - likely the home that your MIL used >to live in before she moved into the assisted living quarters? No, both homes belongs to my wife and I (no daughter). My three sons are grown and live elsewhere. > >> Whichever home I'm >> in, I want to have the same (more or less) capabilities with the >> computer. Unfortunately, that means having duplicates of many >> components. I'd like to keep this to a minimum, but haven't completely >> thought it through. I need help!! > >It would seem to me that your relationship with your computer would be >different in the two places. In RI you and your wife are together and >there would also be a computer there. I sense that in TX, you and your >computer are together :-) No again. My wife and I live together - whether we're in Rhode Islasnd or Texas. > >It seems like you need a different computer environment in TX than RI, >but I'm just guessing. > >> It seems to me that having my duplicate Desktop in both places >> would be a lot less expensive than a super laptop (which would never >> serve my needs completely anyway). > >Or maybe not exactly duplicate. It seems like TX needs a different kind >of rig than RI. Most likely, not.
From: Mike Easter on 9 Jul 2010 16:33 OK the picture is clearing up for me now. PeoplesChoice(a)Chicago.net wrote: > Mike Easter >> PeoplesChoice(a)Chicago.net wrote: >> >> I mostly have that picture. Does that mean that your MIL (and/or >> daughter) have a full-on home in RI - likely the home that your MIL used >> to live in before she moved into the assisted living quarters? > > No, both homes belongs to my wife and I (no daughter). I misspoke. Actually I meant your MIL's daughter, your wife. I wasn't focusing on the abode's ownership as much as the condition that it was a 'living in' place as opposed to temporary quarters. > No again. My wife and I live together - whether we're in Rhode Islasnd > or Texas. Ah, so. I think I got confused when you said this: <PC> > We are legally residents of > Texas and own a home there - but spend the majority of time in RI where > my MIL lives. Every few months, we go there for three weeks. </PC> I was confusing where you were most of the time because I tho't the one of the 'there' above meant RI as in, 'Every few months we go to RI for 3 weeks.' but you must have meant that 'My wife and I live in RI almost all the time, but every few months we go to TX for 3 weeks.' because the other way wouldn't be consistent with saying 'spend the majority of time in RI'. .... and I guess I was thinking of how it - periodic geographic separation - worked with a friend of mine who has places in both CA and AR and who lives in both places, but most of the time in CA he was alone because most of the time his wife was in AR. Most people who are going to have an AV computer rig have that proximal to the AV system. You said > I might want to build a rig that will > handle my music system, a 3D flat screen television system, a TIVO type > digital recorder, videoconferencing (Skype), home security, ham radio, > home conveniences, (you get the idea). .... but for me, where my computers are isn't where my AV stuff is - but if I were hamming, my ham rig might be where my computers are (like Art Bell :-) .... and then I started having a hard time seeing all that be the same on both ends. -- Mike Easter
From: Paul on 9 Jul 2010 16:45
PeoplesChoice(a)Chicago.net wrote: > Please see my response below: > > On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 09:41:08 -0700, Mike Easter <MikeE(a)ster.invalid> > wrote: > >> PeoplesChoice(a)Chicago.net wrote: >> >>> Comments please! (from anyone). >> In the beginning, you started this thread with questions about a LT >> laptop to have the same computer on both ends between RI and TX. >> >> Some of us were saying it was easier to have a modest DT computer on >> both ends and something 'light' to travel with - or even just travel >> with a portable hdd or I have preferred a removable hdd (tray/caddy) in >> the past. >> >> Nowadays you can have an external/portable SATA at SATA speeds instead >> of USB bottleneck/chokepoint. >> >> But now you are describing some pretty elaborate functions for the >> computer you may build. Does that mean that you want all of this >> functionality on both ends of RI and TX, or that you only want some of >> the functions on both ends and other functions at one end? > > The short answer is 'yes.' But the two desktops might not be exactly the > same - depending on the house. But my plan, as of right now, IS to make > them exactly the same. > > I'm sorry to confuse you - and I wasn't really aware that there is a > GROUP of you that are following this thread. The fact that there is a > group makes me feel more comfortable in embarking on building a desktop > (I still don't understand the difference between a desktop and a > workstation). The more (educated) opinions, the better. > > Now, I spend most of the time in RI because my mother-in-law has dementia > and lives in an assisted living home. At some point, she will go into a > nursing home. My wife is her "guardian". We are legally residents of > Texas and own a home there - but spend the majority of time in RI where > my MIL lives. Every few months, we go there for three weeks. In the > future, it may extend to four weeks - depends on my MIL's condition. When > the inevitable happens, we will move to Texas permanently. I don't like > living in two places - but circumstances dictate it. Whichever home I'm > in, I want to have the same (more or less) capabilities with the > computer. Unfortunately, that means having duplicates of many > components. I'd like to keep this to a minimum, but haven't completely > thought it through. I need help!! > > My wife and I have a laptop now (a simple HP Pavilion) and it suffices > for Internet and email. By traveling, I meant just going back and forth > between Texas and RI - not on the road. But I am a computer enthusiast > and want what I want - in both places. I hope this explanation describes > my situation. I don't really need a laptop of my own if I'm going to > build two computers. At the time, I was just thinking I could get away > with a super laptop and plug in all my (duplicate) peripherals where ever > I was at the time. You (the group) have convinced me that I should > consider the removeable hard drive path - and that's where my head is at > now. It seems to me that having my duplicate Desktop in both places > would be a lot less expensive than a super laptop (which would never > serve my needs completely anyway). Also, replacing a super laptop every > few years is something I don't really want to do either. Besides, I've > always wanted to be able to build a desktop and it seems like this would > be that opportunity (with the help of 'the group'. I'm assuming I could > keep up with technology for a longer period of time with destops that I > build myself by changing components. I know I need good advice, though, > as I'm proceeding. > > If you need anything more to clarify my position, please ask so we get > off in the right direction. Thanks for your interest............ > > Bob The nice thing about the desktop computer, is it has room for expansion. You need to put a little planning into the purchase of the motherboard. Some expansion slot patterns are more useful than others. For each "project" you hope to do with the "flexible computer", you still need to learn what interfaces are convenient or high quality, before you can carry out the project. For example, say you want to drive a TV set, with a video card. These might be some interface choices - HDMI > YPrPb component, VGA > S-video > Composite In years past, a person might have connected a computer to a TV via a composite (round RCA) jack. But that is a low quality connection. In the list of interfaces in the preceding line, something like HDMI might be a way to interface to a modern TV set. It is a digital connection, so there should be no picture degradation via the cabling. Component output is not popular on modern video cards now (probably something to do with preventing movie copying), and only old video cards still come with component cables. Some TV sets have a VGA connector, which has separate analog signal for R,G,B, so that is another method that will work. For each hardware project you plan to try, there will be interfaces you'll need. If you really wanted to plan for all these projects in advance, it'll take you a couple months to do all the planning. This is your project list: 1) handle my music system Some higher end motherboards, have S/PDIF optical or coax digital sound outputs, for connecting stereo digital or 5.1 compressed AC3 to an AV receiver. In addition, there may be six or eight channel analog audio on the back connectors. You can also purchase a PCI or PCI Express sound card, like a SoundBlaster brand product of some sort. Sometimes the results are a little better. My motherboard sound is a bit flat and lifeless (bad drivers). 2) 3D flat screen television system A flat screen TV (without the 3D in the title), can be driven by the video card, if the video card has the right connectors on it. I don't know how a "3D flat screen" works. Shutter glasses ? Nvidia had some scheme to do that, but it's a bit on the obscure side (you may have trouble finding people who got it working, and understand the requirements). It might involve double frame rate output for example. You'll need to find an example of someone doing such a setup, to understand the hardware requirements for it. 3) TIVO type digital recorder For broadcast TV, you might want a TV tuner card. For some kind of cable digital TV, there might be a set top box, and it will have some interface like perhaps Firewire on it. Again, you start by looking at how you get TV in your area, to begin to understand what to buy. Some cable content may attempt to be exclusionary, using the need for a cable card to decrypt content, as a means to convince you to buy their "real TIVO". So recording *all* content, might not be that easy. You could browse here, for some ideas. http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/prods.html For the OS, you might also want a version of Windows that bundles Media Center (Windows 7 comes in several SKUs, some of which include Media Center.) Some hardware devices are designed to work with Media Center, which takes some of the pain out of setting them up. 4) videoconferencing (Skype) You could use a USB webcam. The rest of it would be software. The specs on USB webcams tend to be a lie, in that you can get 640x480 @ 30FPS from them, but trying to get 1280x1024 ends up running at 5FPS, which is just damned annoying. And that is a hardware limit. The USB webcam specs don't go into details, to hide issues like this until it is too late. 5) Home security Depending on whether you use an IP camera (more expensive), or regular composite camera, you may need a capture card. You can get cards based on BT878 or the like, which may plug into a PCI slot. But you'd be better off with PCI Express for that, if you can find it. Part of the deception of home security, is that the picture quality will be easy to get. If you're protecting wide open spaces, it can be hard to get enough resolution, for the results to be useful. If a teenager vandalizes your car, and the picture of the face of the teenager is three pixels high, the policeman isn't going to be able to catch him. 6) ham radio RS232 for control of some sort ? Some projects still require RS232, whereas it won't be common as a built-in on the motherboard. I'm using a couple USB to RS232 external adapters, but I don't really like them. A cabling mess... 7) home conveniences Like switching lights on remotely ? There will likely be an interface module that plugs into one of your outlets. And some standard like USB, for connecting the box to your computer. You can scale down your video card a bit. This card is thin, taking a single slot width. It uses 39W of electricity flat out, less while idling. It has DVI (for an LCD monitor), VGA (potentially for TV or to an older monitor, and HDMI (for the HDTV set). There are zero additional power connectors, so all the power comes from the PCI Express slot power pins. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102874 http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-102-874-Z01?$S640W$ The DVI output on that family, is dual link, meaning you can drive an Apple 30" high res monitor with it. http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5570/Pages/hd-5570-specifications.aspx Who knows, you might even be able to get away with stuffing that video card, in the white slot on the right. That might cause less loss of other expansion connectors. P6X58D Premium http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-131-614-Z03?$S640W$ http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/SKUimages/enhanced/A455-2869-call07-or.jpg Since that video card is shorter in length, it isn't likely to bump into anything. It would likely come up to the center of the CMOS coin cell battery, in terms of length. With a lower power video card, you can move down a bit in terms of power supply capacity. I picked this example, because it shows "modular cabling". Since you're going to be inside the computer case a lot, a modular cabling supply allows unused cables to be unplugged at the power supply end. The main 20+4 and ATX12V 2x2 or 2x4 splittable connectors, are permanently affixed to the supply (as you'll always need them). The peripheral cabling, whether PCI Express, SATA power for hard drive, or Molex power for hard drive, can be unplugged when you aren't using them. Modular supplies are fine, unless the connectors aren't properly keyed, and there is a danger of plugging a cable into the wrong "hole". Some people have had expensive kit burned, by stupid connector choices by the manufacturer of the modular ATX supply. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341022 More and more supplies are coming with schemes like "Active PFC", which is power factor correction. One issue with that, is the interaction with UPS (uninterruptable power supplies). Some of the cheaper UPS don't have clean sine wave output, and the computer ATX power supply will cause the UPS to trip out. In some cases, this requires the purchase of a different UPS, or a different ATX supply. Always read the power supply reviews, for any warnings about issues with a UPS. I run my current computer on a UPS, due to the number of "1 second outages" we get here. Our "rural quality" power wiring, has some issues with "line slap". My UPS is hardly ever called on, to run for long periods on battery. It's usually a short "beeep" and then the AC comes back. My current power supply is "UPS friendly", and won't fight with my UPS. But some of the newer Active PFC supplies, would cause me to have to buy another UPS. Paul |