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From: Rowland McDonnell on 21 Dec 2009 23:39 J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > > > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > Mike Dee <mikedee(a)emteedee.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > > > nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > MacSoup is fully functional without registration. > > > > > > All registration does is activate the spyware feature. > > > > > > You can try it at your ease. > > > > > > > > > > "Activate the _spyware_ feature"? Care to flesh this out a little, or > > > > > did you mean to type "de-activate" here instead? > > > > > > > > By `spyware features', he means that MacSoup makes posts like this one, > > > > which according to Jan provide spying-type personal information about > > > > the poster. > > > > > > > > I know what he's on about - can you see it? > > > > > > > > Rowland. > > > > > > > > P.S. If you've not worked it out yet, look at the headers. See the one > > > > that provides OS and application information? That's the spyware > > > > feature, at least according to Jan who's obviously even more barking mad > > > > than I am. > > > > > > MacSoup broadcasts information about your system to the world, > > > and there is no way you can control that. > > > Hence MacSoup is spyware. > > > > But it's not spying because it's not covert information gathering! > > It is. MacSoup doesn't tell or warn you about it. <puzzled> You are wrong. MacSoup shows you in your posts. Where I come from, if it's not covert, it's not spying, whatever's going on. You're sounding completely insane. > > It's information broadcasting - something quite different. > > It is both. Spying and broadcasting, > and therefore twice as obectionable. Not covert, therefore not spying. You're mad. > > > There can be no possible justification for this. > > > Stefan Haller can have his MacSoup vanity tag, > > > but he should not publish user information with it. > > > > Yeah, well, I'm concerned about aspects of my privacy, but I think > > you're being a bit silly about this one. > > > > Do you ensure that all your Web browsers provide spoofed info, for > > example? /That/ information sending is hidden from the user in general > > - why no complaints in that direction? > > I would also object if a web site > were to put it's gathered information > about visitors on-line, I object to Websites gathering the information at all. It would to my mind be totally unobjectionable if ALL such information were fully published. By which I do mean all of it. Rowland. -- Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell(a)dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
From: J. J. Lodder on 22 Dec 2009 05:26 Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > > > J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > > > > > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig(a)flur.bltigibbet.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Mike Dee <mikedee(a)emteedee.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > MacSoup is fully functional without registration. > > > > > > > All registration does is activate the spyware feature. > > > > > > > You can try it at your ease. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Activate the _spyware_ feature"? Care to flesh this out a > > > > > > little, or did you mean to type "de-activate" here instead? > > > > > > > > > > By `spyware features', he means that MacSoup makes posts like this > > > > > one, which according to Jan provide spying-type personal > > > > > information about the poster. > > > > > > > > > > I know what he's on about - can you see it? > > > > > > > > > > Rowland. > > > > > > > > > > P.S. If you've not worked it out yet, look at the headers. See > > > > > the one that provides OS and application information? That's the > > > > > spyware feature, at least according to Jan who's obviously even > > > > > more barking mad than I am. > > > > > > > > MacSoup broadcasts information about your system to the world, > > > > and there is no way you can control that. > > > > Hence MacSoup is spyware. > > > > > > But it's not spying because it's not covert information gathering! > > > > It is. MacSoup doesn't tell or warn you about it. > > <puzzled> You are wrong. MacSoup shows you in your posts. > > Where I come from, if it's not covert, it's not spying, whatever's going > on. > > You're sounding completely insane. > > > > It's information broadcasting - something quite different. > > > > It is both. Spying and broadcasting, > > and therefore twice as obectionable. > > Not covert, therefore not spying. You're mad. > > > > > There can be no possible justification for this. > > > > Stefan Haller can have his MacSoup vanity tag, > > > > but he should not publish user information with it. > > > > > > Yeah, well, I'm concerned about aspects of my privacy, but I think > > > you're being a bit silly about this one. > > > > > > Do you ensure that all your Web browsers provide spoofed info, for > > > example? /That/ information sending is hidden from the user in general > > > - why no complaints in that direction? > > > > I would also object if a web site > > were to put it's gathered information > > about visitors on-line, > > I object to Websites gathering the information at all. It would to my > mind be totally unobjectionable if ALL such information were fully > published. > > By which I do mean all of it. You mean everybody should be able to google your IP and get a complete list of all the sites you have visited? I'm afraid you have a complete disagreement here with the entire rest of the world, Jan
From: J. J. Lodder on 22 Dec 2009 16:13 Jim <jim(a)magrathea.plus.com> wrote: > J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > > > > Oh, you mean those occasions where there's an actual theft of something? > > > Software, resources, bandwidth, whatever? > > > > > > Yes. Yes, I do. > > > > > > MacSOUP doesn't steal anything. > > > > There you have it, excuses in one case, > > condemnation in another. > > > > In short, a double standard, > > Not in the slightest since as I pointed out the first involves actual > theft and the second doesn't. Two different situations. That depends on your definitions of 'theft'. (we've been there before) The trouble with people who hold double standards is that they don't see their own duplicity. > Anyway, if you _really_ feel this strongly about it then take it up with > Stefan. You must be joking. > If he won't change it then kindly have the good grace to stop > using MacSOUP or to stop complaining about it. At some point you'll just > have to accept it and move on. That's your blowing up things. I merely gave a factual answer to a switcher considering MacSoup. It is a factually correct answer, Jan
From: Jim on 22 Dec 2009 16:28 J. J. Lodder <nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > > Not in the slightest since as I pointed out the first involves actual > > theft and the second doesn't. Two different situations. > > That depends on your definitions of 'theft'. > (we've been there before) Yes, and we pointed out that here in the UK people can actually be charged for bandwidth. Remember? > The trouble with people who hold double standards > is that they don't see their own duplicity. Non sequitur. > > Anyway, if you _really_ feel this strongly about it then take it up with > > Stefan. > > You must be joking. Not at all. Your only option to solving what you see as a problem is to take it up with the author. Hint: try being polite, rather than a pompous entitletard. Please keep in mind that it's *his* software - *you* merely have a licence to use it. > > > If he won't change it then kindly have the good grace to stop > > using MacSOUP or to stop complaining about it. At some point you'll just > > have to accept it and move on. > > That's your blowing up things. > I merely gave a factual answer wrong > to a switcher > considering MacSoup. > It is a factually correct answer, That word you keep using - 'factual' - I do not think it means what you think it means. Jim -- "Microsoft admitted its Vista operating system was a 'less good product' in what IT experts have described as the most ambitious understatement since the captain of the Titanic reported some slightly damp tablecloths." http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/
From: Mike Dee on 27 Dec 2009 23:49
nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote: > Mike Dee <mikedee(a)emteedee.invalid> wrote: > >> nospam(a)de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote: >> >> > MacSoup is fully functional without registration. >> > All registration does is activate the spyware feature. >> > You can try it at your ease. >> >> "Activate the _spyware_ feature"? Care to flesh this out a >> little, or did you mean to type "de-activate" here instead? > > Activate. > > Registered copies of MacSoup > broadcast the system version you are using > (and hence info about the kind of your mac) to the world. > Unregistered copies merely say you use MacSoup, > which is unobjectionable, OK, thanks for that, Jan. At least I can understand now what you meant (the difference between registered and unregistered User Agent headers in MacSoup posts). But I do think the word "spyware" to describe this is not correct. A "spyware" is a software that'll "phone home" personal details, usually profiling data gathered without consent and sent to the manufacturer of that software. A registered MacSoup gives a more completed User Agent header but AFAIK it does not "phone home" nor divulge personal details except about the agent delivering the message (MacSoup via such and such a Mac and its OS). Can't this header be turned off in MacSoup? I can understand the shareware author of MacSoup wanting to have an "unregistered" header in there as a "guilt thing". But not being able to turn off the User Agent message if you've registered MacSoup and don't want the User Agent broadcast, would be something of an annoyance IMO. - Even the freeware MT-NewsWatcher has this as an optional header. -- dee |