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From: Grant on 28 Jul 2010 21:01 On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:30:29 -0700, Charlie E. <edmondson(a)ieee.org> wrote: >On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:44:43 -0700, "Joel Koltner" ><zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>"Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>news:8b8epnF9t7U1(a)mid.individual.net... >>> Even Windows (usually) lets you decide where to put a program. Unless >>> the program installer is written very restrictively which sometimes is >>> the case with CAD. >> >>That's really more "broken" than "restrictive." :-) >> >>ORCAD doesn't work quite right if you install it into a directory that has >>spaces in the path... including, of course, "c:\program files." (By default >>it wants to install to something like c:\cadence\spb_16.5.) >> >>This fact alone suggests to me that there's a serious problem with the folks >>in charge of developing and maintaining ORCAD (...long file names/those with >>space in them started with Windows 95 in... 1995...); they've really got to be >>scrapping the bottom of the Windows programmers barrel! >> >>---Joel > >No, it is because modern Orcad uses Allegro as the PCB side of things, >and Allegro is largely developed on Unix workstations where such >things were/are verbotten. Since there is code in these things that >is MUCH older than '95, you need to be careful about spaces and long >filenames... ;-) Unix always (well, in recent years) accepted blanks in filenames (only two chars not allowed are \0 and '/', being the path terminator and directory delimiter), but they then need to be quoted, and there's a long-running convention that says 'don't do spaces in filepaths'. Grant. > >Charlie
From: JosephKK on 29 Jul 2010 01:54 On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:56:15 +1000, Grant <omg(a)grrr.id.au> wrote: >On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:46:59 -0700, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>"Grant" <omg(a)grrr.id.au> wrote in message >>news:6kfs46p65dc6m9c9kq3b404mivsctfgd7a(a)4ax.com... >>> This is a difference between Linux and windows. Under Linux, people >>> compile their applications and have control over the app's runtime >>> resource allocation. >>> >>> If you're running some commercial binary, you're not fully in control >>> of your own system. >> >>I'd wager that for everyone who compiles a *nix application from source these >>days, there are at least 99 who just installed a binary via Synaptic, RPMs, >>Yum, or some other package manager... are they "not fully in control" of their >>systems? > >No, they're trusting the source of said rpm... > >Grant. The source is often distributed in a different RPM or DEB or whatever. Package manager style distributions are rather unfriendly to source packages. You have spent too long dealing only with Slackware.
From: Nobody on 29 Jul 2010 07:54 On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:29:09 -0700, Joel Koltner wrote: >> No, it is because modern Orcad uses Allegro as the PCB side of things, >> and Allegro is largely developed on Unix workstations where such >> things were/are verbotten. Since there is code in these things that >> is MUCH older than '95, you need to be careful about spaces and long >> filenames... ;-) > > Someone with a much stronger Unix background than I will have to chime in and > mention when most Unices began supporting (file systems with) spaces in > filenames. Unix itself has never had a problem with spaces in filename. Heck, it doesn't have a problem with newlines or control characters in filenames. The only bytes which absolutely aren't permitted in a filename are the null byte ('\0') and the slash ('/') character. Spaces are only a problem when embedding a filename within a larger body of text which uses spaces for its own purposes. The most common example being shell scripts. If a program doesn't like filenames which contain spaces, it's probably because of something like: sprintf(buf, "doit %s", filename); system(buf);
From: Charlie E. on 29 Jul 2010 10:43 On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:29:09 -0700, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >"Charlie E." <edmondson(a)ieee.org> wrote in message >news:75j056d5rc75gb1dhff3kulq9rvj54eo8m(a)4ax.com... >> No, it is because modern Orcad uses Allegro as the PCB side of things, >> and Allegro is largely developed on Unix workstations where such >> things were/are verbotten. Since there is code in these things that >> is MUCH older than '95, you need to be careful about spaces and long >> filenames... ;-) > >Someone with a much stronger Unix background than I will have to chime in and >mention when most Unices began supporting (file systems with) spaces in >filenames. I don't recall if the ones I used in school back in the early '90s >did or not, but by the time I was playing with Linux on PCs about a decade >later they all sure did!* > >I don't expect software houses to always provide "zero day" support for new >features within an OS; I realize these things can take significant time when >you have a lot of legacy code. It's just that we're talking FIFTEEN YEARS >now -- I would be so horribly embarassed to work for or manage a company that >took that long to get around to updating their code... > Well, the Allegro team was basically like any Cadence product. First, Cadence buys a company, and integrates its tools into their 'flow.' Then, they lay off the entire development team, or at least, anyone that really knows what they are doing. They retain a few managers, and maybe an 'expert' or two. Then, it comes time to do the next release. Since they laid off anyone that knew what they were doing, they bring in a few coders from other products, and try adding a feature or two. By the way, the ones they 'retained' are now super-experts, who believe that their own code has no bugs, and their excrement has no odor. If THEY couldn't implement a feature, then it obviously ain't possible, so quit asking about it! As for fixing old bugs, like problems with spaces or long file names, that is boring. Give that problem to someone in India or something. By the way, don't change anything in 'these' sections of code. We don't know what they do, but if you change anything the whole build crashes... >Do you get free maintenance upgrades to ORCAD for life as a former employee, >Charlie? :-) Actually, NO! I am presently using Orcad 15.7 because it was the last version you could get a perpetual, transferable license for... > >---Joel > >* I do remember, back in 1990, one professor who was bucking the trend at the >university and had his lab machines running VMS when the rest of campus was >some flavor of Unix or a Microsoft OS. I played with it for a couple of hours >and was quite convinced I didn't want much more to do with it... and I'm >almost positive it didn't support spaces in filenames. :-)
From: JosephKK on 29 Jul 2010 21:54
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:54:19 +0100, Nobody <nobody(a)nowhere.com> wrote: >On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:29:09 -0700, Joel Koltner wrote: > >>> No, it is because modern Orcad uses Allegro as the PCB side of things, >>> and Allegro is largely developed on Unix workstations where such >>> things were/are verbotten. Since there is code in these things that >>> is MUCH older than '95, you need to be careful about spaces and long >>> filenames... ;-) >> >> Someone with a much stronger Unix background than I will have to chime in and >> mention when most Unices began supporting (file systems with) spaces in >> filenames. > >Unix itself has never had a problem with spaces in filename. Heck, it >doesn't have a problem with newlines or control characters in filenames. >The only bytes which absolutely aren't permitted in a filename are the >null byte ('\0') and the slash ('/') character. > >Spaces are only a problem when embedding a filename within a larger body >of text which uses spaces for its own purposes. The most common example >being shell scripts. If a program doesn't like filenames which contain >spaces, it's probably because of something like: > > sprintf(buf, "doit %s", filename); > system(buf); Not going to argue about when it became allowed, but just a couple of days ago, discovered that i had several directories in one place with leading spaces in the name. Seeing the confusion that could cause i moved them to names without leading spaces. |