Management and Engineering
in [DSP]
|
Prev: Name That Topology
Next: COMP.DSP 2010 update
From: Rune Allnor on 16 Mar 2010 05:04 On 16 Mar, 04:09, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > Sure. Where did you learn enough about your body to understand your > doctor, in hygiene class? In any class? Probably not. The vessels I work on have international crew. The basic vessel crew (galley/housekeeping) are usually Philippinos, the entry level positions (galley assitsants, housekeepers) being held by 18-20-year-olds, the higher positions (steward, 2nd engine chief) being held by maybe 35-40-year-olds. One of the (Norwegian) first mates told me some pretty scary stories: On one trip, weeks or months before this conversation took plae, the vessel's captain (also a Norwegian) had expressed some appreciation for certain salads made from herring, that were offered in the mess. "Since the (Philippino) steward herad that comment, he has always made sure those salads were offered every day. *Don't* have any of them!! - it might well be the same salads that were offered a week ago!" He also expressed concern about hygiene in the galley. Sure, the (Philippino) galley assistants used the prescribed rubber cloves while working with food in the galley. But they did not take the gloves off when doing other stuff - they were observed walking straight from the galley, wearing the gloves, to the toilet, then walking straight back to the galley to work the food, still wearing the same gloves. This is ridiculously basic stuff. But it has to be learned. Rune
From: Rune Allnor on 16 Mar 2010 05:09 On 15 Mar, 21:23, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > Rune Allnor wrote: > > On 15 Mar, 20:35, HardySpicer <gyansor...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> How much management should be taught in an undergrad engineering > >> degree? Or should management be left to industry for you to pick up > >> later? > > > Engineers *should* learn *some* management. Basic economy, > > legal aspects of contracts, some group psychology. > > Basic economy, legal aspects of contracts, and some group psychology are > tools managers should have. So should engineers, shopkeepers, parents, > ministers, and rabbis. They don't constitute management /per se/. The > only people I worked for who actually studied management as > undergraduates were among the worst managers I had. What was the reason for that? That they *had* studied managment? Or that they had *not* studied engineering? I am sure are familiar with my views of managment. This might come as a surprise to you, but I *do* think the skills etc taught in managment classes are both useful and maybe even necessary. But as 2nd or 3rd skills, after one have learned the primary skills relevant to the business, be it plumbing, carpentry or C++. The main blunder people make today is that they learn *only* managment (maybe with some law or economy) and think that's sufficient. Rune
From: Jerry Avins on 16 Mar 2010 11:40 Rune Allnor wrote: > On 15 Mar, 21:23, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote: >> Rune Allnor wrote: >>> On 15 Mar, 20:35, HardySpicer <gyansor...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> How much management should be taught in an undergrad engineering >>>> degree? Or should management be left to industry for you to pick up >>>> later? >>> Engineers *should* learn *some* management. Basic economy, >>> legal aspects of contracts, some group psychology. >> Basic economy, legal aspects of contracts, and some group psychology are >> tools managers should have. So should engineers, shopkeepers, parents, >> ministers, and rabbis. They don't constitute management /per se/. The >> only people I worked for who actually studied management as >> undergraduates were among the worst managers I had. > > What was the reason for that? That they *had* studied managment? > Or that they had *not* studied engineering? I don't understand the question. I wrote, "The only people I worked for who actually studied management as undergraduates were among the worst managers I had." Their studies probably didn't make them worse than they would have been, but it seemed to give them to think that they were better than they were. > I am sure are familiar with my views of managment. This might > come as a surprise to you, but I *do* think the skills etc > taught in managment classes are both useful and maybe even > necessary. The usefulness is lost if the teaching expands the ego more than the skill set. > But as 2nd or 3rd skills, after one have learned the primary > skills relevant to the business, be it plumbing, carpentry > or C++. The main blunder people make today is that they > learn *only* managment (maybe with some law or economy) and > think that's sufficient. Jerry -- Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen, and thinking what nobody has thought. .. Albert Szent-Gyorgi �����������������������������������������������������������������������
From: Jerry Avins on 16 Mar 2010 11:48 Rune Allnor wrote: > On 16 Mar, 04:09, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > >> Sure. Where did you learn enough about your body to understand your >> doctor, in hygiene class? In any class? Probably not. > > The vessels I work on have international crew. The basic > vessel crew (galley/housekeeping) are usually Philippinos, > the entry level positions (galley assitsants, housekeepers) > being held by 18-20-year-olds, the higher positions (steward, > 2nd engine chief) being held by maybe 35-40-year-olds. > > One of the (Norwegian) first mates told me some pretty > scary stories: On one trip, weeks or months before this > conversation took plae, the vessel's captain (also a Norwegian) > had expressed some appreciation for certain salads made > from herring, that were offered in the mess. "Since the > (Philippino) steward herad that comment, he has always > made sure those salads were offered every day. *Don't* > have any of them!! - it might well be the same salads that > were offered a week ago!" > > He also expressed concern about hygiene in the galley. > Sure, the (Philippino) galley assistants used the prescribed > rubber cloves while working with food in the galley. But > they did not take the gloves off when doing other stuff - > they were observed walking straight from the galley, wearing > the gloves, to the toilet, then walking straight back to the > galley to work the food, still wearing the same gloves. > > This is ridiculously basic stuff. But it has to be learned. Absolutely! The question here is whether they need to be learned in a required one-semester course for college credit. Apropos management and leadership: did anyone think to have a half-hour basic hygiene sit-down session with at least the kitchen crew? I can just hear the crew chief's response: "That wasn't part of what they taught in management class." Jerry -- Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen, and thinking what nobody has thought. .. Albert Szent-Gyorgi �����������������������������������������������������������������������
From: Rune Allnor on 16 Mar 2010 12:15
On 16 Mar, 16:48, Jerry Avins <j...(a)ieee.org> wrote: > Apropos management and > leadership: did anyone think to have a half-hour basic hygiene sit-down > session with at least the kitchen crew? Probably not - until it was decades too late. My *prejudice* on the matter that these guys are not used to think or to understand; just to do what they are told. If somebody tell them to wear rubber gloves, they wear rubber gloves. No questions asked. No arguing or discussing. No decisions to be made. End of story. Pyshology and culture. Rune |