My rant...
in [Design]
|
Prev: Blew the fuse in my multimeter, wanted to replace it, grabbed it, but
Next: VBUS design USB OTG
From: Bill Sloman on 29 Apr 2010 17:01 On Apr 29, 7:16 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My- Web-Site.com> wrote: > On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:33:03 -0700, "Joel Koltner" > > > > <zapwireDASHgro...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >Hi Jim, > > >"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in > >messagenews:2j4jt5hmu1i1j869kvaj58p5i24ubf6hmn(a)4ax.com... > >> mpm misses my point. Like most liberals he fails to notice that the > >> world is also populated by plumbers, electricians, machinists, > >> mechanics, etc., that don't need a "college" education... they need a > >> "trade school" education... and often these trades pay better than > >> what we "educated" people make. > > >Agreed. I heard an article on the (radio) news yesterday about how paid > >apprenticeships are making a comeback for machinists -- there just aren't > >enough of them out there right now, and while schools still teach the basics, > >in many cases they haven't caught up to industry with respect to how much CAD > >and computer interfaces now play a daily role in most machinist's jobs. > > My father-in-law was a machinist, AND the most well-read person I've > ever known. He was always complaining that high school graduates > couldn't read a blueprint :-) > > > > >Oddly, the article's started with off with something like, "no longer just an > >unthinking job, machnists have gone high tech." -- Whoever wrote that must > >not know many machnists, since if they did they'd know that being a good > >machinst has always required plenty of thinking. > > >> I'm still learning. I don't ever expect to stop... except for that > >> final stop sign :-) > > >The percentage of people your age who can claim to have put up their own web > >page is likely in the low single-digits... :-) > > >---Joel > > Is that something difficult? And 70 isn't really old anymore. I see > people 20 years older than me still with their wits. There are some, but the incidence of Alzheimer's doubles every five years from the time you turn 65, and has got to 70% for the over-90s. So one in three "still have their wits" when they are twenty years older than Jim. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
From: Michael A. Terrell on 29 Apr 2010 17:46 Joel Koltner wrote: > > Oddly, the article's started with off with something like, "no longer just an > unthinking job, machnists have gone high tech." -- Whoever wrote that must > not know many machnists, since if they did they'd know that being a good > machinst has always required plenty of thinking. A lot of people think a machinist is the guy who loads a chunk of metal into a CNC machine and pushes the start button. :( -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
From: mpm on 29 Apr 2010 18:22 On Apr 29, 11:31 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On- My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > In Arizona, with tinted car windows the mode du jour, how does a > police officer "profile" in the first place? Easy. They'll be driving around in a "Cheby", an "Ohsmobeel" or a "Bolswahgon" Either that, or they'll have their last name stenciled on their rear windshield in reflective chrome Old English font. ..... or tattoed on their chest. -mpm
From: mpm on 29 Apr 2010 18:37 On Apr 29, 9:14 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...(a)On-My- Web-Site.com> wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 20:42:12 -0700, "Joel Koltner" > > <zapwireDASHgro...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >"mpm" <mpmill...(a)aol.com> wrote in message > >news:74b966d2-0d5d-42ff-8882-873406c99557(a)k41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com.... > >> The degree thing seemed a bit self-serving and elitest, and it's not > >> that degrees aren't needed: it just that the world moves faster than > >> traditional degree programs can keep up. > > >There's plenty I disagree with Jim on, but his comment about degrees is one I > >wholeheartedly do agree with: Most of the jobs today -- even those that > >require engineering degrees -- are relatively "shallow" in the sense that it > >doesn't take nearly four years to become proficient in them. > > mpm misses my point. Like most liberals he fails to notice that the > world is also populated by plumbers, electricians, machinists, > mechanics, etc., that don't need a "college" education... they need a > "trade school" education... and often these trades pay better than > what we "educated" people make. > > In mpm's ideal world, everyone would be a member of Mensa. Having > been a member of Mensa, I can assure you they're primarily populated > by fatheads who think they should be paid according to their IQ, NOT > according to their productivity... heaven forbid we should include the > word "productive" in a liberal's vocabulary ;-) > > >E.g., without my > >trying to be boostful here, I was absolutely a better software developer > >coming out of high school than some of the computer science graduates I see > >today, and I'm equally convinced that Jim was a better hardware designer out > >of high school than many graduate BSEEs today. > > Perhaps. I could build things that worked. (Tooobz no less.) But I > only vaguely had a clue as to why. > > > > >One thing that I do think is more true now than ever before is the idea of > >"life-long learning" -- while it's not particularly difficult, it's something > >today's generation will largely need to be on top of whereas my impression is > >that even 25 years ago after you finished college the likelihood of a vert > >large percenteage of people every cracking open another textbook was nil.. But > >it's still life-long learning of pretty straightforward topics -- I'm amazed > >that any job offering today includes such basic requirements as "proficiency > >with MS Word," when by "proficient" they just mean, "can type up letters, do a > >little formatting, mess around with headers and footers, generate a table of > >contents, etc." > > >---Joel > > I'm still learning. I don't ever expect to stop... except for that > final stop sign :-) > > ...Jim Thompson > -- > | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | > | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | > | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | > | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | > | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | > | E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com| 1962 | > > The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy I didn't miss the point. (At least, I don't think I did?) I just draw a distinction between a plumber, and an out-of-work plumber. The latter could be said to be anything, for if he never picks up a pipe wrench again, is he still a plumber? (And by that, I imply the whole unemployment argument..) I also don't disagree with your sentiments about college being completely unnecessary for the trades. But I'll have to re-read your original post and my comment to it, to decipher your reply. I generally think we're on the same page here, (?) Although, I can tell you that when the economy turns sour, as it has in recent years, its always the middle class (and particularly the non- college, trade crowd) that gets further marginalized. That's really a separate issue from whether or not a college education is useful in a white-collar career, or whether the lack thereof meaningfully hinders some blue-collar trade. -mpm
From: krw on 29 Apr 2010 21:29
For some reason Individual isn't carrying some of these threads complete. Jim, you doing something funny? On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 20:42:12 -0700, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >"mpm" <mpmillard(a)aol.com> wrote in message >news:74b966d2-0d5d-42ff-8882-873406c99557(a)k41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... >> The degree thing seemed a bit self-serving and elitest, and it's not >> that degrees aren't needed: it just that the world moves faster than >> traditional degree programs can keep up. > >There's plenty I disagree with Jim on, but his comment about degrees is one I >wholeheartedly do agree with: Most of the jobs today -- even those that >require engineering degrees -- are relatively "shallow" in the sense that it >doesn't take nearly four years to become proficient in them. E.g., without my >trying to be boostful here, I was absolutely a better software developer >coming out of high school than some of the computer science graduates I see >today, and I'm equally convinced that Jim was a better hardware designer out >of high school than many graduate BSEEs today. Umm, not all BSEEs become hardware designers. Very few, in fact (which is a good thing ;). >One thing that I do think is more true now than ever before is the idea of >"life-long learning" -- while it's not particularly difficult, it's something >today's generation will largely need to be on top of whereas my impression is >that even 25 years ago after you finished college the likelihood of a vert >large percenteage of people every cracking open another textbook was nil. But >it's still life-long learning of pretty straightforward topics -- I'm amazed >that any job offering today includes such basic requirements as "proficiency >with MS Word," when by "proficient" they just mean, "can type up letters, do a >little formatting, mess around with headers and footers, generate a table of >contents, etc." There is nothing magic about the last 25 years. I've heard the same thing about the business since I've been in it. I'm sure Jim has too (though he worked his way of from dirt, some time after the invention of rocks). |