Natural for zOS
in [Cobol]
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From: Pete Dashwood on 15 May 2010 09:42 docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: > In article <4H3ZLJJ640312.889837963(a)reece.net.au>, > Kulin Remailer <remailer(a)reece.net.au> wrote: >> Clark F Morris <cfmpublic(a)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >> >>>> I've a zOS+Hercules setup installed in my notebook but I want >>>> install natural (softwareag) too. Do you know where can I find the >>>> disks? >>> >>> How did you do this legally? >> >> It's pathetic to see how many people work for the government. Are >> they paying you to enforce contracts you haven't even read, or do >> you just have too much spare time? > > It might be reasonably concluded that the abovegiven answer readily > translates to 'I did not do this legally'. Maybe. Or maybe he's just irritated at the question being asked. I'm not sure if it is relevant whether he did it legally or not. Seems to me that is a matter for his conscience and the software police. The question is whether anyone knows where he can obtain Natural for the PC. It is possible to download an evaluation version (good for 90 days) here: http://www.softwareag.com/corporate/products/natural_2010/download/default.asp If longer term use was required, my suggestion would be "try EBay..." Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Anonymous on 15 May 2010 12:11 In article <857mn2FtgpU1(a)mid.individual.net>, Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >> In article <4H3ZLJJ640312.889837963(a)reece.net.au>, >> Kulin Remailer <remailer(a)reece.net.au> wrote: >>> Clark F Morris <cfmpublic(a)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >>> >>>>> I've a zOS+Hercules setup installed in my notebook but I want >>>>> install natural (softwareag) too. Do you know where can I find the >>>>> disks? >>>> >>>> How did you do this legally? >>> >>> It's pathetic to see how many people work for the government. Are >>> they paying you to enforce contracts you haven't even read, or do >>> you just have too much spare time? >> >> It might be reasonably concluded that the abovegiven answer readily >> translates to 'I did not do this legally'. > >Maybe. It might be reasonably concluded that the abogiven answer ('maybe') readily translates into a variation of 'Yes, it might be'. Next week - call-forwarding strategies designed specifically for the desks in the Department of Reduncancy Department. (Firesign Theatre reference.) > >Or maybe he's just irritated at the question being asked. > >I'm not sure if it is relevant whether he did it legally or not. I'm not sure as to what others are sure is relevant or not is relevant or not... this statement, included. > >Seems to me that is a matter for his conscience and the software police. It seems to me that to ask a group which contains members who earn their bread and butter by writing software 'How can I do something which appears to be an awful lot like stealing software?' is not indicative of an action which would be the result of the sharpest bulb in the chandelier... errrr, the brightest knife in the elevator... errrr, a drawer which goes all the way to the top... errrrr, some manner of trite-and-truism. DD
From: Clark F Morris on 15 May 2010 20:48 On Sun, 16 May 2010 01:42:57 +1200, "Pete Dashwood" <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >> In article <4H3ZLJJ640312.889837963(a)reece.net.au>, >> Kulin Remailer <remailer(a)reece.net.au> wrote: >>> Clark F Morris <cfmpublic(a)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >>> >>>>> I've a zOS+Hercules setup installed in my notebook but I want >>>>> install natural (softwareag) too. Do you know where can I find the >>>>> disks? >>>> >>>> How did you do this legally? >>> >>> It's pathetic to see how many people work for the government. Are >>> they paying you to enforce contracts you haven't even read, or do >>> you just have too much spare time? >> >> It might be reasonably concluded that the abovegiven answer readily >> translates to 'I did not do this legally'. > >Maybe. > >Or maybe he's just irritated at the question being asked. > >I'm not sure if it is relevant whether he did it legally or not. Given the discussions about running z/OS on Hercules and other emulators that have occurred on bit.listserv.ibm-main, it is a highly relevant question. IBM apparently is willing to license z/OS only on z series hardware and has been vigorous in enforcing this much to the distress of those who would like developer or hobbyist licenses to run under emulation. There are rumors of IBM employees running z/OS on Hercules and the whole issue is generating much discussion periodically. > >Seems to me that is a matter for his conscience and the software police. > >The question is whether anyone knows where he can obtain Natural for the >PC. > >It is possible to download an evaluation version (good for 90 days) here: >http://www.softwareag.com/corporate/products/natural_2010/download/default.asp > >If longer term use was required, my suggestion would be "try EBay..." > >Pete.
From: Pete Dashwood on 16 May 2010 08:26 Clark F Morris wrote: > On Sun, 16 May 2010 01:42:57 +1200, "Pete Dashwood" > <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: > >> docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >>> In article <4H3ZLJJ640312.889837963(a)reece.net.au>, >>> Kulin Remailer <remailer(a)reece.net.au> wrote: >>>> Clark F Morris <cfmpublic(a)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I've a zOS+Hercules setup installed in my notebook but I want >>>>>> install natural (softwareag) too. Do you know where can I find >>>>>> the disks? >>>>> >>>>> How did you do this legally? >>>> >>>> It's pathetic to see how many people work for the government. Are >>>> they paying you to enforce contracts you haven't even read, or do >>>> you just have too much spare time? >>> >>> It might be reasonably concluded that the abovegiven answer readily >>> translates to 'I did not do this legally'. >> >> Maybe. >> >> Or maybe he's just irritated at the question being asked. >> >> I'm not sure if it is relevant whether he did it legally or not. > > Given the discussions about running z/OS on Hercules and other > emulators that have occurred on bit.listserv.ibm-main, it is a highly > relevant question. Given that this is NOT bit.listserv.ibm-main, the fact that a discussion has raged elsewhere really has no bearing on a post to THIS forum. I can understand that IBM will have a position on this and that is fair enough, but does that mean that all of us must also adopt that position? I don't see anyone who posts here being empowered to make judgements about others who post here. Even leaving aside the fact that judgemental posts don't achieve much, it isn't really anyone's business how the software was acquired, UNLESS it is YOUR software. As a software developer myself, I'm not condoning the stealing of software. Like IBM, if people were stealing my software I would have a strong position on that. I take reasonable steps to make sure the effort required to steal it is not worth the "reward" of having an illegal copy. If anyone is prepared to make the effort required in order to illegally acquire my software, I'm very tempted to let it go and be flattered they want it so bad... :-). I think far too much is made of alleged "software theft". It results in ridiculous, unwieldy, intricate, (and expensive) Licensing schemes that simply alienate legitimate users. We saw this with the Fujitsu COBOL products a few years back and the company was irreparably damaged by it. The majority of business users are quite happy to be legitimate. If it is "hobby" users stealing software, what proportion of the revenue base does it represent and how serious is it? If hobbyists are using your software (for their own non-commercial purposes, or as part of a personal education plan) isn't that a "Good Thing"? In the broad scheme of things I can't see it being damaging, but I would agree that stealing software (or anything else) is generally wrong. However, I feel that being judgemental is even more damaging. As I said before, what people do is a matter for them and the software police, not for me. I understand your point, Clark, but is the legality of his Hercules software relevant to a question about running Natural? > IBM apparently is willing to license z/OS only on > z series hardware and has been vigorous in enforcing this much to the > distress of those who would like developer or hobbyist licenses to run > under emulation. There are rumors of IBM employees running z/OS on > Hercules and the whole issue is generating much discussion > periodically. OK. I didn't know about that. Thanks for the explanation. Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything."
From: Pete Dashwood on 16 May 2010 08:35
docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: > In article <857mn2FtgpU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > Pete Dashwood <dashwood(a)removethis.enternet.co.nz> wrote: >> docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >>> In article <4H3ZLJJ640312.889837963(a)reece.net.au>, >>> Kulin Remailer <remailer(a)reece.net.au> wrote: >>>> Clark F Morris <cfmpublic(a)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I've a zOS+Hercules setup installed in my notebook but I want >>>>>> install natural (softwareag) too. Do you know where can I find >>>>>> the disks? >>>>> >>>>> How did you do this legally? >>>> >>>> It's pathetic to see how many people work for the government. Are >>>> they paying you to enforce contracts you haven't even read, or do >>>> you just have too much spare time? >>> >>> It might be reasonably concluded that the abovegiven answer readily >>> translates to 'I did not do this legally'. >> >> Maybe. > > It might be reasonably concluded that the abogiven answer ('maybe') > readily translates into a variation of 'Yes, it might be'. Sure. But "maybe" admits the possibility of "No, it doesn't." also. > > Next week - call-forwarding strategies designed specifically for the > desks in the Department of Reduncancy Department. > > (Firesign Theatre reference.) > >> >> Or maybe he's just irritated at the question being asked. >> >> I'm not sure if it is relevant whether he did it legally or not. > > I'm not sure as to what others are sure is relevant or not is > relevant or not... this statement, included. > Yes. (definitely :-)) >> >> Seems to me that is a matter for his conscience and the software >> police. > > It seems to me that to ask a group which contains members who earn > their bread and butter by writing software 'How can I do something > which appears to be an awful lot like stealing software?' is not > indicative of an action which would be the result of the sharpest > bulb in the chandelier... errrr, the brightest knife in the > elevator... errrr, a drawer which goes all the way to the top... > errrrr, some manner of trite-and-truism. The translation of what was posted, into 'How can I do something which appears to be an awful lot like stealing software?', is a considerable stretch. The question was about Natural, which is freely available and there is no question of stealing it. Pete. -- "I used to write COBOL...now I can do anything." |