Need a sound recorder, what should I get?
in [Repair]
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From: Michael A. Terrell on 11 Mar 2010 13:44 Adrian Tuddenham wrote: > > Robert Macy <macy(a)california.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian > > Tuddenham) wrote: > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent > > > > tenant. > > > > > > > Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results. > > > > > > > What should I use? > > > > > > The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback > > > loudspeaker. > > > > > > Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap > > > dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic > > > might work best. > > > > > > If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap > > > omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response > > > than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is > > > demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are > > > rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend > > > on their positioning on the listener's ears. > > > > > > Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can > > > calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when > > > you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is > > > predominantly L.F. > > > > > Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA? > > dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of > industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced > sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less > damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the > microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass > anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the > normal hearing range. > > > The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and > > then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's > > like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where > > it's coming from a little. > > > > I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound > > presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in > > a large courtroom... > > You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any > official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled > with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them. > You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court. > > Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or > requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at > all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise: > > 1) Its loudness > 2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long > 3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises, > thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?) > > ...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the > point you want to make. > > > > > Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the > > Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not > > absolute. > > There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available > from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy > wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an > expensive calibrated meter. Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now: <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282> Here is the owner's manual: <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282> > If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert' > to take legally-valid measurements for you. -- Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
From: Robert Macy on 11 Mar 2010 18:25 On Mar 11, 10:15 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian Tuddenham) wrote: > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian > > Tuddenham) wrote: > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent > > > > tenant. > > > > > Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results. > > > > > What should I use? > > > > The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback > > > loudspeaker. > > > > Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap > > > dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic > > > might work best. > > > > If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap > > > omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response > > > than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is > > > demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are > > > rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend > > > on their positioning on the listener's ears. > > > > Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can > > > calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when > > > you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is > > > predominantly L.F. > > > Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA? > > dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of > industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced > sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less > damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the > microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass > anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the > normal hearing range. > > > The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and > > then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's > > like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where > > it's coming from a little. > > > I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound > > presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in > > a large courtroom... > > You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any > official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled > with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them. > You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court. > > Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or > requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at > all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise: > > 1) Its loudness > 2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long > 3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises, > thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?) > > ...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the > point you want to make. > > > > > Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the > > Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not > > absolute. > > There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available > from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy > wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an > expensive calibrated meter. > > If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert' > to take legally-valid measurements for you. > > -- > ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ > (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk Excellent information, thank you.
From: Robert Macy on 11 Mar 2010 18:25 On Mar 11, 10:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > Adrian Tuddenham wrote: > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian > > > Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent > > > > > tenant. > > > > > > Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results. > > > > > > What should I use? > > > > > The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback > > > > loudspeaker. > > > > > Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap > > > > dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic > > > > might work best. > > > > > If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap > > > > omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response > > > > than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is > > > > demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are > > > > rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend > > > > on their positioning on the listener's ears. > > > > > Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can > > > > calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when > > > > you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is > > > > predominantly L.F. > > > > Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA? > > > dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of > > industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced > > sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less > > damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the > > microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass > > anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the > > normal hearing range. > > > > The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and > > > then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's > > > like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where > > > it's coming from a little. > > > > I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound > > > presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in > > > a large courtroom... > > > You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any > > official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled > > with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.. > > You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court. > > > Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or > > requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at > > all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise: > > > 1) Its loudness > > 2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long > > 3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises, > > thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?) > > > ...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the > > point you want to make. > > > > Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the > > > Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not > > > absolute. > > > There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available > > from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy > > wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an > > expensive calibrated meter. > > Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now: > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282> > > Here is the owner's manual: > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282> > > > If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert' > > to take legally-valid measurements for you. > > -- > Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!' Thank you for the URLs. I wonder if what doesn't record is loud enough to activate it.
From: Michael A. Terrell on 11 Mar 2010 19:05 Robert Macy wrote: > > On Mar 11, 10:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> > wrote: > > Adrian Tuddenham wrote: > > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian > > > > Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > > Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent > > > > > > tenant. > > > > > > > > Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results. > > > > > > > > What should I use? > > > > > > > The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback > > > > > loudspeaker. > > > > > > > Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap > > > > > dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic > > > > > might work best. > > > > > > > If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap > > > > > omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response > > > > > than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is > > > > > demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are > > > > > rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend > > > > > on their positioning on the listener's ears. > > > > > > > Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can > > > > > calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when > > > > > you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is > > > > > predominantly L.F. > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA? > > > > > dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of > > > industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced > > > sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less > > > damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the > > > microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass > > > anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the > > > normal hearing range. > > > > > > The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and > > > > then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's > > > > like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where > > > > it's coming from a little. > > > > > > I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound > > > > presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in > > > > a large courtroom... > > > > > You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any > > > official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled > > > with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them. > > > You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court. > > > > > Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or > > > requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at > > > all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise: > > > > > 1) Its loudness > > > 2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long > > > 3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises, > > > thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?) > > > > > ...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the > > > point you want to make. > > > > > > Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the > > > > Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not > > > > absolute. > > > > > There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available > > > from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy > > > wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an > > > expensive calibrated meter. > > > > Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now: > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282> > > > > Here is the owner's manual: > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282> > > > > > If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert' > > > to take legally-valid measurements for you. > > > > -- > > Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!' > > Thank you for the URLs. > > I wonder if what doesn't record is loud enough to activate it. The sound meter has an output jack after the preamp to let you either record the signal being measured, or to look at it on a scope. Other than the plastic nose piece and yellow knob, it looks quite a bit like my 20+ year old Radio Shack meter. -- Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
From: b on 11 Mar 2010 19:19
On 11 mar, 17:33, Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer > Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant" no hours of > operation, no arbitrary interpretation. That's why we moved in. > > I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators > should. > > if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no > waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move > and all costs. This all sounds a bit hasty to me. Have you actually tried a) talking to those making the noise, who may not for all you know , be fully aware of the nuisance they cause, and b) talking to the landlord about it? If so, what was their response(s)? usually these things can be settled with quiet but firm words in the right ear, rather than jumping to collecting 'evidence' and geting into legal action. Just my .02 worth -B |