Need a sound recorder, what should I get?
in [Repair]
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From: Michael A. Terrell on 26 Mar 2010 16:14 Robert Macy wrote: > > On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> > wrote: > > Adrian Tuddenham wrote: > > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian > > > > Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > > Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent > > > > > > tenant. > > > > > > > > Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results. > > > > > > > > What should I use? > > > > > > > The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback > > > > > loudspeaker. > > > > > > > Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap > > > > > dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic > > > > > might work best. > > > > > > > If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap > > > > > omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response > > > > > than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is > > > > > demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are > > > > > rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend > > > > > on their positioning on the listener's ears. > > > > > > > Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can > > > > > calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when > > > > > you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is > > > > > predominantly L.F. > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA? > > > > > dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of > > > industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced > > > sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less > > > damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the > > > microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass > > > anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the > > > normal hearing range. > > > > > > The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and > > > > then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's > > > > like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where > > > > it's coming from a little. > > > > > > I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound > > > > presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in > > > > a large courtroom... > > > > > You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any > > > official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled > > > with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them. > > > You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court. > > > > > Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or > > > requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at > > > all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise: > > > > > 1) Its loudness > > > 2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long > > > 3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises, > > > thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?) > > > > > ...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the > > > point you want to make. > > > > > > Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the > > > > Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not > > > > absolute. > > > > > There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available > > > from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy > > > wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an > > > expensive calibrated meter. > > > > Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now: > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282> > > > > Here is the owner's manual: > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282> > > > > > If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert' > > > to take legally-valid measurements for you. > > > > -- > > Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!' > > Thank you for this URL !!! You're welcome. > Received from Harbor Freight within 5 days of order. Nice product. > > The output is from the microphone/preamp, and not meter display. If > it had been meter display, could have borrowed one of those chart > recorders with time of day, and marked which ones are from offending > tenant. > > VERY INTERESTING meter peaking measurements: > > TV, set at our normal listening level = 56 > TV, set for poor sound films, a bit uncomfortable = 58 > Conversation above TV = 60 to 62 > Heavy diesel trucks outside = 62 > Water faucet full output = 66 > Bathroom exhaust fan = 68 > Roaring motorcycle (also outside) = 68 > > Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60 > to 64 > Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to > 70+, offscale > > the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through > 4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level. > > So, thank you for this meter. It provides evidence supporting our > claim that these sounds are obtrusive and not just a subjective > impression, nor based upon a 'sensitivity' to sounds. -- Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
From: Robert Macy on 26 Mar 2010 16:41 On Mar 26, 11:48 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian Tuddenham) wrote: > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > [...] > > > Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60 > > to 64 > > Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to > > 70+, offscale > > > the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through > > 4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level. > > Hells bells! Have you spoken to the other tenants about this? > > Noise levels like that during the night must have woken most of the > immediate neighbours. > > -- > ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ > (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk Actually, no one else is greatly affected. Flats are 'sound proofed' causing sound to only go vertically. Thus from top floor down into our flat. Absolutely barely hear anything in the hallway outside origin flat. Sometimes the tenants below us have pounded on their ceiling (our floor), evidently thinking it's coming from us. And, that really catches us in the middle. According to management, no one else has complained. But that always strikes me like a customer service complaint response, "No one else has that problem." ...ok I did find a tenant adjacent to the offending flat that claimed to hear, and properly characterize the origin, "sounds like throwing a ball around the room" and promise to call management, but weasels is weasels, it never happened. In spite of 3 requests and 3 promises to complain. Talk about serrendipitous timing. Just today caught part of a Korean TV KBS show called 3 Days. In the segment I caught, a Sr. Program Director corrects a rooky PD who is editing a piece to be shown later that night. The rooky PD had used the phrase "irritating deciBel level" and the Sr PD corrected him saying, "That's confusing. Be specific. Just, say 70 deciBels." They think 70 dB is irritating! We get hit with over 72 to 74 dB from the tenant above!
From: Robert Macy on 8 Apr 2010 14:04 On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > Adrian Tuddenham wrote: > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian > > > Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent > > > > > tenant. > > > > > > Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results. > > > > > > What should I use? > > > > > The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback > > > > loudspeaker. > > > > > Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap > > > > dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic > > > > might work best. > > > > > If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap > > > > omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response > > > > than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is > > > > demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are > > > > rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend > > > > on their positioning on the listener's ears. > > > > > Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can > > > > calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when > > > > you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is > > > > predominantly L.F. > > > > Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA? > > > dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of > > industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced > > sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less > > damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the > > microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass > > anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the > > normal hearing range. > > > > The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and > > > then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's > > > like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where > > > it's coming from a little. > > > > I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound > > > presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in > > > a large courtroom... > > > You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any > > official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled > > with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.. > > You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court. > > > Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or > > requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at > > all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise: > > > 1) Its loudness > > 2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long > > 3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises, > > thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?) > > > ...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the > > point you want to make. > > > > Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the > > > Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not > > > absolute. > > > There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available > > from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy > > wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an > > expensive calibrated meter. > > Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now: > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282> > > Here is the owner's manual: > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282> > > > If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert' > > to take legally-valid measurements for you. > > -- > Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!' ARRGGG DISCONTINUED!!!
From: Michael A. Terrell on 8 Apr 2010 15:16 Robert Macy wrote: > > On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> > wrote: > > Adrian Tuddenham wrote: > > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian > > > > Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > > Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent > > > > > > tenant. > > > > > > > > Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results. > > > > > > > > What should I use? > > > > > > > The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback > > > > > loudspeaker. > > > > > > > Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap > > > > > dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic > > > > > might work best. > > > > > > > If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap > > > > > omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response > > > > > than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is > > > > > demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are > > > > > rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend > > > > > on their positioning on the listener's ears. > > > > > > > Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can > > > > > calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when > > > > > you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is > > > > > predominantly L.F. > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA? > > > > > dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of > > > industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced > > > sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less > > > damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the > > > microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass > > > anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the > > > normal hearing range. > > > > > > The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and > > > > then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's > > > > like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where > > > > it's coming from a little. > > > > > > I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound > > > > presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in > > > > a large courtroom... > > > > > You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any > > > official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled > > > with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them. > > > You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court. > > > > > Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or > > > requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at > > > all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise: > > > > > 1) Its loudness > > > 2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long > > > 3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises, > > > thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?) > > > > > ...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the > > > point you want to make. > > > > > > Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the > > > > Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not > > > > absolute. > > > > > There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available > > > from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy > > > wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an > > > expensive calibrated meter. > > > > Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now: > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282> > > > > Here is the owner's manual: > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282> > > > > > If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert' > > > to take legally-valid measurements for you. > > > > -- > > Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!' > > ARRGGG > > DISCONTINUED!!! It may just be out of stock. They pull a listing when something isn't availible. It has happened to me several times, then I walk into the local store a few weeks or months later and they are back in stock. Also, they change the stock number if they change suppliers. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/
From: Robert Macy on 8 Apr 2010 18:10
On Apr 8, 12:16 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > Robert Macy wrote: > > > On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...(a)earthlink.net> > > wrote: > > > Adrian Tuddenham wrote: > > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...(a)poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian > > > > > Tuddenham) wrote: > > > > > > Robert Macy <m...(a)california.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent > > > > > > > tenant. > > > > > > > > Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results. > > > > > > > > What should I use? > > > > > > > The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback > > > > > > loudspeaker. > > > > > > > Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap > > > > > > dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic > > > > > > might work best. > > > > > > > If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap > > > > > > omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response > > > > > > than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is > > > > > > demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are > > > > > > rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend > > > > > > on their positioning on the listener's ears. > > > > > > > Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can > > > > > > calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when > > > > > > you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is > > > > > > predominantly L.F. > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA? > > > > > dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of > > > > industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced > > > > sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less > > > > damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the > > > > microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass > > > > anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the > > > > normal hearing range. > > > > > > The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and > > > > > then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's > > > > > like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where > > > > > it's coming from a little. > > > > > > I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound > > > > > presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in > > > > > a large courtroom... > > > > > You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any > > > > official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled > > > > with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them. > > > > You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court. > > > > > Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or > > > > requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at > > > > all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise: > > > > > 1) Its loudness > > > > 2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long > > > > 3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises, > > > > thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?) > > > > > ...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the > > > > point you want to make. > > > > > > Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the > > > > > Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not > > > > > absolute. > > > > > There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available > > > > from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy > > > > wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an > > > > expensive calibrated meter. > > > > Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now: > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282> > > > > Here is the owner's manual: > > > > <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282> > > > > > If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert' > > > > to take legally-valid measurements for you. > > > > -- > > > Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!' > > > ARRGGG > > > DISCONTINUED!!! > > It may just be out of stock. They pull a listing when something isn't > availible. It has happened to me several times, then I walk into the > local store a few weeks or months later and they are back in stock. > Also, they change the stock number if they change suppliers. > > -- > Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to > prove it. > Member of DAV #85. > > Michael A. Terrell > Central Florida > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/ I'll check later. I was surprised at the $14+ price. I can't even get boxes w battery compartments, let alone knobs, switches, panel meters, etc for those kinds of prices. But, everything from Cen-Tech looked extremely low priced, like everything is discontinued. Examples, laser level for $49, non-contact thermometers for $22 etc |