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From: tony cooper on 8 Jul 2010 10:08 On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 00:27:37 -0500, LOL! <lol(a)lol.org> wrote: >On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 00:16:37 -0400, tony cooper ><tony_cooper213(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > >>On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:01:58 -0500, Bill T. <billt(a)unknown.net> wrote: >> >>>Where's YOUR photography? I've uploaded and posted no less than 20 photos >>>this month to prove fools like you dead-wrong, each and every time. >> >>All with questionable provenance. All with the built-in excuse of >>being deliberately degraded. > >Until you have to file lawsuits against image thieving trolls like Vance >due to the photography excellence you have NO ROOM to make any comments >about how they are presented. > I've seen no indication that any of your shots would tempt anyone to steal them. Besides, don't photos degrade each time they are stolen? Yours have already been degraded. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
From: Robert Coe on 8 Jul 2010 21:05 On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter <mothboyhunter(a)mothboyhunter.org> wrote: : In article <p06a36hr1orbsumollgtvir7pg2lo7ger2(a)4ax.com>, : Robert Coe <bob(a)1776.COM> wrote: : : > On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:53:48 -0500, Bill T. <billt(a)unknown.net> wrote: : : : > : : > : I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I : > : give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge : > : several times during their learning experience to see how they are : > : progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that : > : fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to : > : find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!" : > : : > : It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a : > : challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy. When : > : I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It pisses : > : me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased they : > : are now doing so well--they finally "get it!" : > : > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign the : > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. Once : > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a : > good picture better. : > : > Bob : : Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another : sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you? : He is posing as the professor of all that is photography, and he is not : worth wasting your time on. The likelihood that he has ever had an : "apprentice" of any type is slim to nothing. : As far as him being any kind of educator, perish the thought. That's OK; I'm not an educator either. If the Troll writes something that seems coherent, I'll answer it in that vein. If he posts an insane rant, I'll call him on it or ignore it altogether, as I have on many occasions. I believe (to the extent of my knowledge; I'm not a psychiarist either) that the Troll is clinically insane. And I meant it when I said (probably in some other thread) that I feel sorry for his parents. My two children are productive, well-adjusted members of society who are raising five smart, happy, good-looking, outgoing, lovable grandchildren for my wife and me. The Troll's parents have apparently experienced a different outcome. I'll never meet them, but I wish them well. Bob
From: Peter on 8 Jul 2010 21:20 "Robert Coe" <bob(a)1776.COM> wrote in message news:p06a36hr1orbsumollgtvir7pg2lo7ger2(a)4ax.com... > > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign > the > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. > Once > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a > good picture better. > And all to often a potentially good picture is thereby rendered mediocre through improper cropping. I think that you must have some type of eye to crop artfully. I can show you what others have done, but the final product has to come from within. I might like tight crops, other's might prefer loose crops. If I insist that you crop only like me, that will only teach you my standard. It will probably not bring out your innate ability. IOW I have problems with teaching cropping one on one. Multiple opinions are needed and then the artist must select, after giving due deference to the outside comments. -- Peter
From: Robert Coe on 8 Jul 2010 22:13 On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:20:12 -0400, "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> wrote: : "Robert Coe" <bob(a)1776.COM> wrote in message : news:p06a36hr1orbsumollgtvir7pg2lo7ger2(a)4ax.com... : : > : > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign : > the : > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. : > Once : > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a : > good picture better. : > : : And all to often a potentially good picture is thereby rendered mediocre : through improper cropping. : I think that you must have some type of eye to crop artfully. I can show you : what others have done, but the final product has to come from within. I : might like tight crops, other's might prefer loose crops. : If I insist that you crop only like me, that will only teach you my : standard. It will probably not bring out your innate ability. : IOW I have problems with teaching cropping one on one. Multiple opinions are : needed and then the artist must select, after giving due deference to the : outside comments. If you're saying that good cropping technique can't be taught, I don't agree. If you're sqying it can't (or shouldn't) be taught because the teacher will force his opinions on the student, you're implying that all teachers are bad. A good teacher won't do that. And someone in an elementary photography class is not yet an "artist". A photographer who doesn't know how to crop is like a painter who doesn't know how to control a brush. The latter isn't an "artist" either. Bob
From: Peter on 8 Jul 2010 23:08
"Robert Coe" <bob(a)1776.COM> wrote in message news:it0d36le1fnv7htj0pdirtc7ovjlh54att(a)4ax.com... > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:20:12 -0400, "Peter" <peternew(a)nospamoptonline.net> > wrote: > : "Robert Coe" <bob(a)1776.COM> wrote in message > : news:p06a36hr1orbsumollgtvir7pg2lo7ger2(a)4ax.com... > : > : > > : > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to > assign > : > the > : > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. > : > Once > : > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to > make a > : > good picture better. > : > > : > : And all to often a potentially good picture is thereby rendered mediocre > : through improper cropping. > : I think that you must have some type of eye to crop artfully. I can show > you > : what others have done, but the final product has to come from within. I > : might like tight crops, other's might prefer loose crops. > : If I insist that you crop only like me, that will only teach you my > : standard. It will probably not bring out your innate ability. > : IOW I have problems with teaching cropping one on one. Multiple opinions > are > : needed and then the artist must select, after giving due deference to > the > : outside comments. > > If you're saying that good cropping technique can't be taught, I don't > agree. What I am saying is that cropping is a part of seeing. A good teacher can show how to see, but not what to see. > > If you're sqying it can't (or shouldn't) be taught because the teacher > will > force his opinions on the student, you're implying that all teachers are > bad. > A good teacher won't do that. > I agree. but go further. A good teacher will try to guard against inadvertant imposition of views. But, that is almost impossible to do. That's why the novice sould seek out several opinions on how to see, prior to developing his own style. > And someone in an elementary photography class is not yet an "artist". A > photographer who doesn't know how to crop is like a painter who doesn't > know > how to control a brush. The latter isn't an "artist" either. I think that goes too far. BTW are you going to the NECC at Amherst next weekend. I will be there with a few of the guys from my club and my wife. It's an interesting series of lectures. http://www.neccc.org/ -- Peter |