P&S's still have rotten quality (Canon G10)
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From: Savageduck on 11 Nov 2009 21:34 On 2009-11-11 16:54:00 -0800, Outing Trolls is FUN! <otif(a)trollouters.org> said: > On 11 Nov 2009 16:49:06 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote: > >> Outing Trolls is FUN! <otif(a)trollouters.org> wrote: >> >>> I think what really bothers him is that not only do P&S cameras easily >>> compete with and beat images from DSLRs: >> >>> http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml >> >>> But that non-stabilized P&S cameras even compete with medium format >>> Hasselblads securely mounted on a tripod, something that not even DSLRs can >>> accomplish: >> >>> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml >> >> You still haven't read that, have you, despite having been told by >> several folk that it doesn't say what you think it does! > > Your ability to not read all the text on a report is truly amazing. The > same way that you read most posts on usenet no doubt. > > You better not read this one in total too. > > http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-canon-7d/ > > You might have to ignore all the parts where a Canon G9 and G11 P&S cameras > are keeping pace with and bettering the images from the new Canon 7D DSLR, > as well as keeping pace with all the other DSLRs they compared. > > We all await your DSLR-Trolls' insecure cries of "boo hoo, that's NOT what > it says!" No matter what anyone says the images posted there sure do say > that. Actually what it says, if you read it all the way through, is the Nikon D300s is the performance winner. You were probably focused on these quotes; "The little $575 G11 point-n-shoot can definitely hold its own against the 7D in terms of quality." and "The G11 gives very vibrant colours even when the RAW files are processed with the exact same settings as the 7D. We're not sure why. Disregarding the colour differences it looks like the little G11 produces files to compete with the bigger sensor on the 7D." However you needed to read on to get to these; "In this comparison the D300s easily wins in our opinion. The fine detail is really nice, the tonal changes are subtle. The Canon 7D file has a characteristic mushy look." and "In the next test we interpolated the Nikon D300s file up to 18MP. Then we tried to match the colours and contrast of the two files for a finished image." " Even at a disadvantage the interpolated Nikon file simply trumps the Canon file. In our opinion there is no contest, the Nikon D300s produces better files than the Canon 7D." That article is certainly more of a condemnation of the 7D as compared with the G11, but not of the G11 trouncing all DSLRs, especially the D300s. As he says in his conclusion, "We were so impressed with the Canon G11 that we plan to add it to our camera bags as an everyday walk around camera." and "We thought the 7D should give us files better than a Rebel or G11. Maybe we are too anal." and his test photographer Sam has since purchased the Nikon D300s. So it seems I did well to add the G11 to my bag as a companion to my D300. Thanks for providing this confirmation. -- Regards, Savageduck
From: Dale Connors on 11 Nov 2009 22:25 On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:34:17 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote: >On 2009-11-11 16:54:00 -0800, Outing Trolls is FUN! ><otif(a)trollouters.org> said: > >> On 11 Nov 2009 16:49:06 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote: >> >>> Outing Trolls is FUN! <otif(a)trollouters.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I think what really bothers him is that not only do P&S cameras easily >>>> compete with and beat images from DSLRs: >>> >>>> http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml >>> >>>> But that non-stabilized P&S cameras even compete with medium format >>>> Hasselblads securely mounted on a tripod, something that not even DSLRs can >>>> accomplish: >>> >>>> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml >>> >>> You still haven't read that, have you, despite having been told by >>> several folk that it doesn't say what you think it does! >> >> Your ability to not read all the text on a report is truly amazing. The >> same way that you read most posts on usenet no doubt. >> >> You better not read this one in total too. >> >> http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-canon-7d/ >> >> You might have to ignore all the parts where a Canon G9 and G11 P&S cameras >> are keeping pace with and bettering the images from the new Canon 7D DSLR, >> as well as keeping pace with all the other DSLRs they compared. >> >> We all await your DSLR-Trolls' insecure cries of "boo hoo, that's NOT what >> it says!" No matter what anyone says the images posted there sure do say >> that. > > > >Actually what it says, if you read it all the way through, is the Nikon >D300s is the performance winner. > >You were probably focused on these quotes; > "The little $575 G11 point-n-shoot can definitely hold its own against >the 7D in terms of quality." >and >"The G11 gives very vibrant colours even when the RAW files are >processed with the exact same settings as the 7D. We're not sure why. >Disregarding the colour differences it looks like the little G11 >produces files to compete with the bigger sensor on the 7D." > >However you needed to read on to get to these; > "In this comparison the D300s easily wins in our opinion. The fine >detail is really nice, the tonal changes are subtle. The Canon 7D file >has a characteristic mushy look." >and >"In the next test we interpolated the Nikon D300s file up to 18MP. Then >we tried to match the colours and contrast of the two files for a >finished image." " Even at a disadvantage the interpolated Nikon file >simply trumps the Canon file. In our opinion there is no contest, the >Nikon D300s produces better files than the Canon 7D." > >That article is certainly more of a condemnation of the 7D as compared >with the G11, but not of the G11 trouncing all DSLRs, especially the >D300s. What you fail to do is compare the images yourself with an unbiased point of view. The G11 image quality and resolution clearly beat or equaled those of a few of the other DSLRs tested against it. If everyone is laughing about P&S cameras, why are P&S cameras able to provide better images than those from many DSLRs these days? A $440 P&S camera consistently beating the image quality from a $1500 DSLR. In the other CameraLabs review a super-zoom P&S camera clearly beating another DSLR in image quality. In the Luminous-Landscape review using a blind-test they couldn't tell 13"x19" prints apart from a lowly P&S camera and those taken with a medium format Hasselblad. Prints much larger than most any average photographer will ever print theirs. Three different groups of people comparing and reviewing them in those links above. All consistently showing that P&S cameras can and indeed do win over, if not at least keep paces with, many DSLRs made today. So why the big stink being made by DSLR-Trolls about P&S cameras? According to all the DSLR-Trolls there is NO WAY that a P&S camera can even come close to producing DSLR image quality. Yet here are three different reviews being done where they not only come close, but they in fact even beat the images from some DSLRs. So why the incessant big stink from all the DSLR-Trolls?
From: Ray Fischer on 11 Nov 2009 22:31 Outing Trolls is FUN! <otif(a)trollouters.org> wrote: >On 11 Nov 2009 16:49:06 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote: > >>Outing Trolls is FUN! <otif(a)trollouters.org> wrote: >> >>> I think what really bothers him is that not only do P&S cameras easily >>> compete with and beat images from DSLRs: >> >>> http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml >> >>> But that non-stabilized P&S cameras even compete with medium format >>> Hasselblads securely mounted on a tripod, something that not even DSLRs can >>> accomplish: >> >>> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml >> >>You still haven't read that, have you, despite having been told by >>several folk that it doesn't say what you think it does! > >Your ability to not Your ability to be a lying troll is tiresome. -- Ray Fischer rfischer(a)sonic.net
From: Dale Connors on 11 Nov 2009 22:35 On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:34:17 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote: >On 2009-11-11 16:54:00 -0800, Outing Trolls is FUN! ><otif(a)trollouters.org> said: > >> On 11 Nov 2009 16:49:06 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote: >> >>> Outing Trolls is FUN! <otif(a)trollouters.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I think what really bothers him is that not only do P&S cameras easily >>>> compete with and beat images from DSLRs: >>> >>>> http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml >>> >>>> But that non-stabilized P&S cameras even compete with medium format >>>> Hasselblads securely mounted on a tripod, something that not even DSLRs can >>>> accomplish: >>> >>>> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml >>> >>> You still haven't read that, have you, despite having been told by >>> several folk that it doesn't say what you think it does! >> >> Your ability to not read all the text on a report is truly amazing. The >> same way that you read most posts on usenet no doubt. >> >> You better not read this one in total too. >> >> http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-canon-7d/ >> >> You might have to ignore all the parts where a Canon G9 and G11 P&S cameras >> are keeping pace with and bettering the images from the new Canon 7D DSLR, >> as well as keeping pace with all the other DSLRs they compared. >> >> We all await your DSLR-Trolls' insecure cries of "boo hoo, that's NOT what >> it says!" No matter what anyone says the images posted there sure do say >> that. > > > >Actually what it says, if you read it all the way through, is the Nikon >D300s is the performance winner. > >You were probably focused on these quotes; > "The little $575 G11 point-n-shoot can definitely hold its own against >the 7D in terms of quality." >and >"The G11 gives very vibrant colours even when the RAW files are >processed with the exact same settings as the 7D. We're not sure why. >Disregarding the colour differences it looks like the little G11 >produces files to compete with the bigger sensor on the 7D." > >However you needed to read on to get to these; > "In this comparison the D300s easily wins in our opinion. The fine >detail is really nice, the tonal changes are subtle. The Canon 7D file >has a characteristic mushy look." >and >"In the next test we interpolated the Nikon D300s file up to 18MP. Then >we tried to match the colours and contrast of the two files for a >finished image." " Even at a disadvantage the interpolated Nikon file >simply trumps the Canon file. In our opinion there is no contest, the >Nikon D300s produces better files than the Canon 7D." > >That article is certainly more of a condemnation of the 7D as compared >with the G11, but not of the G11 trouncing all DSLRs, especially the >D300s. What you fail to do is compare the images yourself with an unbiased point of view. The G11 image quality and resolution clearly beat or equaled those of a few of the other DSLRs tested against it. If everyone is laughing about P&S cameras, why are P&S cameras able to provide better images than those from many DSLRs these days? A $440 P&S camera consistently beating the image quality from a $1500 DSLR, and that doesn't even include the price of the hunk of glass needed for the DSLR. $1900 with a kit-lens. In the other CameraLabs review a super-zoom P&S camera clearly beating another DSLR in image quality. In the Luminous-Landscape review using a blind-test they couldn't tell 13"x19" prints apart from a lowly P&S camera and those taken with a medium format Hasselblad. Prints much larger than most any average photographer will ever print theirs. Three different groups of people comparing and reviewing them in those links above. All consistently showing that P&S cameras can and indeed do win over, if not at least keep paces with, many DSLRs made today. So why the big stink being made by DSLR-Trolls about P&S cameras? According to all the DSLR-Trolls there is NO WAY that a P&S camera can even come close to producing DSLR image quality. Yet here are three different reviews being done where they not only come close, but they in fact even beat the images from some DSLRs. So why the incessant big stink from all the DSLR-Trolls?
From: Savageduck on 11 Nov 2009 23:12
On 2009-11-11 19:35:14 -0800, Dale Connors <dconnors(a)spamblockedaddress.com> said: > On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:34:17 -0800, Savageduck > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote: > >> On 2009-11-11 16:54:00 -0800, Outing Trolls is FUN! >> <otif(a)trollouters.org> said: >> >>> On 11 Nov 2009 16:49:06 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Outing Trolls is FUN! <otif(a)trollouters.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think what really bothers him is that not only do P&S cameras easily >>>>> compete with and beat images from DSLRs: >>>> >>>>> http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml >>>> >>>>> But that non-stabilized P&S cameras even compete with medium format >>>>> Hasselblads securely mounted on a tripod, something that not even DSLRs can >>>>> accomplish: >>>> >>>>> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml >>>> >>>> You still haven't read that, have you, despite having been told by >>>> several folk that it doesn't say what you think it does! >>> >>> Your ability to not read all the text on a report is truly amazing. The >>> same way that you read most posts on usenet no doubt. >>> >>> You better not read this one in total too. >>> >>> http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-canon-7d/ >>> >>> You might have to ignore all the parts where a Canon G9 and G11 P&S cameras >>> are keeping pace with and bettering the images from the new Canon 7D DSLR, >>> as well as keeping pace with all the other DSLRs they compared. >>> >>> We all await your DSLR-Trolls' insecure cries of "boo hoo, that's NOT what >>> it says!" No matter what anyone says the images posted there sure do say >>> that. >> >> >> >> Actually what it says, if you read it all the way through, is the Nikon >> D300s is the performance winner. >> >> You were probably focused on these quotes; >> "The little $575 G11 point-n-shoot can definitely hold its own against >> the 7D in terms of quality." >> and >> "The G11 gives very vibrant colours even when the RAW files are >> processed with the exact same settings as the 7D. We're not sure why. >> Disregarding the colour differences it looks like the little G11 >> produces files to compete with the bigger sensor on the 7D." >> >> However you needed to read on to get to these; >> "In this comparison the D300s easily wins in our opinion. The fine >> detail is really nice, the tonal changes are subtle. The Canon 7D file >> has a characteristic mushy look." >> and >> "In the next test we interpolated the Nikon D300s file up to 18MP. Then >> we tried to match the colours and contrast of the two files for a >> finished image." " Even at a disadvantage the interpolated Nikon file >> simply trumps the Canon file. In our opinion there is no contest, the >> Nikon D300s produces better files than the Canon 7D." >> >> That article is certainly more of a condemnation of the 7D as compared >> with the G11, but not of the G11 trouncing all DSLRs, especially the >> D300s. > > What you fail to do is compare the images yourself with an unbiased point > of view. The G11 image quality and resolution clearly beat or equaled those > of a few of the other DSLRs tested against it. Not at all. I have recently purchased a G11 to team with my D300. I examined each of the images and read the accompanying comments with the interest of a new owner wanting to find validation of his purchase, and I did. I was surprised a Canon biased blog had thrown a D300s into the test mix ( I guess that was to appease "Sam") and I was pleasantly surprised to find thier conclusion was the G11 out performed the 7D, and the D300s out performed both of them. I will be well equiped on my next trip with my D300 and my new G11. > > If everyone is laughing about P&S cameras, Not everybody is laughing about P&S cameras, many of us use both, P&S and DSLR. Before buying the G11 I had a Fujifilm E-900 which was a good performer, but had terrible ergonomics. > why are P&S cameras One particular P&S in this test, the G11. > able to provide better images than those from many DSLRs these days? A $440 P&S > camera consistently beating the image quality from a $1500 DSLR, and that > doesn't even include the price of the hunk of glass needed for the DSLR. > $1900 with a kit-lens. Again that seems to be an issue Canon needs to deal with for the three Canon cameras discussed in the test. > In the other CameraLabs review a super-zoom P&S > camera clearly beating another DSLR in image quality. In the > Luminous-Landscape review using a blind-test they couldn't tell 13"x19" > prints apart from a lowly P&S camera and those taken with a medium format > Hasselblad. Prints much larger than most any average photographer will ever > print theirs. You need to reread that review. > > Three different groups of people comparing and reviewing them in those > links above. All consistently showing that P&S cameras can and indeed do > win over, if not at least keep paces with, many DSLRs made today. So why > the big stink being made by DSLR-Trolls about P&S cameras? According to all > the DSLR-Trolls there is NO WAY that a P&S camera can even come close to > producing DSLR image quality. Yet here are three different reviews being > done where they not only come close, but they in fact even beat the images > from some DSLRs. P&S cameras have a place, and the quality of images produced has improved. As cited in some cases, matches or exceeds that of certain compared test DSLRs. However there are areas where the P&S does not meet the ability of the DSLR. > > So why the incessant big stink from all the DSLR-Trolls? The issue is your incessant evangelizing of P&S and insulting many here who use both P&S and DSLR as circumstances dictate, without bias. -- Regards, Savageduck |