PicKit 2 WARNING
in [Design]
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From: Spehro Pefhany on 16 Sep 2009 06:29 On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:25:58 -0700, the renowned Robert Baer <robertbaer(a)localnet.com> wrote: >David L. Jones wrote: >> Robert Baer wrote: >>> David L. Jones wrote: >>>> Frank Buss wrote: >>>>> David L. Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Robert Baer wrote: >>>>>>> You can permanently destroy a PicKit 2 programming pod in an >>>>>>> easy un-documented manner. >>>>>>> 1) Tie one or more pins of a PIC MCU to ground; it does not help >>>>>>> to have MCU program use the pin(s) as inputs. >>>>>>> 2) Program then power up the MCU with the PicKit 2; you may need >>>>>>> to do power down and power up a few times. >>>>>>> ZZZZzzzzzaaaaaa:P:! No Poof, No Frap, No Zap; it just gets >>>>>>> killed. As far as i can tell the USP port is not damaged; my >>>>>>> 1Gbyte stick still reads OK. >>>>> I have no such problems with this test setup: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.frank-buss.de/pic18f2550/index.html >>>>> >>>>> The PIC is always powered from external power in my test setup. But >>>>> I noticed that the PicKit pulls VDD to low, if disabled, which was >>>>> not much of a problem, because of my current limited power supply, >>>>> but I think this could destroy the prorgammer. >>>> It can only pull VDD low with a 1K in series, so that isn't going to >>>> destroy the programmer. >>>> www.modtronix.com/products/prog/pickit2/pickit2%20datasheet.pdf >>>> >>>>>> Err, yes they are, at $35 it's one of the cheapest official >>>>>> programmers on the market for any micro. >>>>> There are some other programmers within the same price range: >>>>> >>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?keywords=428-2021-ND >>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?keywords=336-1182-ND >>>>> >>>>> But you are right, there are more expensive ones, but then usually >>>>> with in-circuit debugging support etc. >>>> The PICkit2 has in-circuit debugging capability, stand-alone field >>>> programming support, and can power your circuit under test with any >>>> voltage from 2.8V to 5V. And as a bonus can be used as a 4 logic >>>> analyser and serial protocol analyser too. Pretty good value for >>>> money! Dave. >>>> >>> There was NO (1K) "protection" resistor (8 lines) from MCU to >>> ground; at worst 2 pins were shorted. >> >> Huh? >> I'm refering to Frank comment about the PICkit2 circuit and it's ability to >> pull the VDD pin LOW. >> According to the schematic for the PICkit2 it's got a 1K series resistor in >> there for that. >> >> Dave. >> > There is an *actual* (and correct) schematic for the PicKit-2 >programming pod? > Where, oh where pray tell? User's Guide, Appendix A. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff(a)interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
From: ehsjr on 16 Sep 2009 11:53 Robert Baer wrote: > ehsjr wrote: > >> Robert Baer wrote: >> >>> Jan Panteltje wrote: >>> >>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:07:10 -0700) it happened Robert >>>> Baer >>>> <robertbaer(a)localnet.com> wrote in >>>> <V7ednUh1WdnzXDDXnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d(a)posted.localnet>: >>>> >>>>> You can permanently destroy a PicKit 2 programming pod in an easy >>>>> un-documented manner. >>>>> 1) Tie one or more pins of a PIC MCU to ground; it does not help to >>>>> have MCU program use the pin(s) as inputs. >>>>> 2) Program then power up the MCU with the PicKit 2; you may need to >>>>> do power down and power up a few times. >>>>> ZZZZzzzzzaaaaaa:P:! No Poof, No Frap, No Zap; it just gets killed. >>>>> As far as i can tell the USP port is not damaged; my 1Gbyte stick >>>>> still reads OK. >>>>> >>>>> And the damn pods are not cheap. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am still using this one, wrote software for it to support every >>>> PIC I needed so far: >>>> http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/noppp/ >>>> Blow up as many as you want, less then 1$ part count. >>>> >>> Nice. But..using unsupported PIC parts and have a fast computer - >>> so i will pass on the NOPPP. >>> That site referred to Dontronics which has 4 programmers; all of >>> them are MUCH more expensive. >>> >> >> Maybe you can build your own - don't give up on that idea too soon. >> If you don't like the NOPP, there's plenty more. Here's one example: >> http://www.rentron.com/Myke4.htm >> That's for a serial port. For USB try >> http://www.mcuhobby.com/articles.php?article_id=7 >> >> At least reading about it is free. Building a programmer >> might save you some $ so it is worth considering. >> >> Ed > > What little i saw at the mcuhobby site is extremely interesting and it > would be nice to make that clone. > BUT. > Other than the "fact" that it may exist, how does one (1) get a > schematic, It is on page 2 of the article. (2) get the program for the chip tht it uses, and (3) find > out what that chip might be? The chip is identified (PIC18F2550) on the schematic and on page 4 of the article, and there is a link to the download site for the code. You will need a working programmer to load the code into the 18F2550, or a friend with on to do it for you. > The site takes over 3 minutes to load; i gave up at tht point. Ok, that problem I cannot solve for you. :-( I can Email the schematic, if that helps. It is 123 Kb Ed
From: Robert Baer on 16 Sep 2009 14:04 David L. Jones wrote: > Robert Baer wrote: >> David L. Jones wrote: >>> Robert Baer wrote: >>>> David L. Jones wrote: >>>>> Frank Buss wrote: >>>>>> David L. Jones wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Robert Baer wrote: >>>>>>>> You can permanently destroy a PicKit 2 programming pod in an >>>>>>>> easy un-documented manner. >>>>>>>> 1) Tie one or more pins of a PIC MCU to ground; it does not help >>>>>>>> to have MCU program use the pin(s) as inputs. >>>>>>>> 2) Program then power up the MCU with the PicKit 2; you may need >>>>>>>> to do power down and power up a few times. >>>>>>>> ZZZZzzzzzaaaaaa:P:! No Poof, No Frap, No Zap; it just gets >>>>>>>> killed. As far as i can tell the USP port is not damaged; my >>>>>>>> 1Gbyte stick still reads OK. >>>>>> I have no such problems with this test setup: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.frank-buss.de/pic18f2550/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> The PIC is always powered from external power in my test setup. >>>>>> But I noticed that the PicKit pulls VDD to low, if disabled, >>>>>> which was not much of a problem, because of my current limited >>>>>> power supply, but I think this could destroy the prorgammer. >>>>> It can only pull VDD low with a 1K in series, so that isn't going >>>>> to destroy the programmer. >>>>> www.modtronix.com/products/prog/pickit2/pickit2%20datasheet.pdf >>>>> >>>>>>> Err, yes they are, at $35 it's one of the cheapest official >>>>>>> programmers on the market for any micro. >>>>>> There are some other programmers within the same price range: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?keywords=428-2021-ND >>>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?keywords=336-1182-ND >>>>>> >>>>>> But you are right, there are more expensive ones, but then usually >>>>>> with in-circuit debugging support etc. >>>>> The PICkit2 has in-circuit debugging capability, stand-alone field >>>>> programming support, and can power your circuit under test with any >>>>> voltage from 2.8V to 5V. And as a bonus can be used as a 4 logic >>>>> analyser and serial protocol analyser too. Pretty good value for >>>>> money! Dave. >>>>> >>>> There was NO (1K) "protection" resistor (8 lines) from MCU to >>>> ground; at worst 2 pins were shorted. >>> Huh? >>> I'm refering to Frank comment about the PICkit2 circuit and it's >>> ability to pull the VDD pin LOW. >>> According to the schematic for the PICkit2 it's got a 1K series >>> resistor in there for that. >>> >>> Dave. >>> >> There is an *actual* (and correct) schematic for the PicKit-2 >> programming pod? >> Where, oh where pray tell? > > Well, I typed "PICkit 2 schematic" into Google and the first hit is: > www.modtronix.com/products/prog/pickit2/pickit2%20datasheet.pdf > It's in the users guide that should have came with your PICkit2 on the CD. > Is it "correct"? I don't know that for sure, but it's the official > Microchip document so you'd like to think so. > > Dave. > Thanks! That is the *FIRST* "PICkit 2 User's Guide" that i have sees that was (1) so long, and (2) had a schematic of the beastie.
From: Robert Baer on 16 Sep 2009 14:09 IanM wrote: > E wrote: >>>> Have you tried updating it (tools ->Download Pickit2 Operating System) >>>> I have noticed it tends to lose its operating system if mishandled. >>> No, but i think that i cannot do that as i fully expect the file to >>> be over a few megs in size (am on dial-up). >> >> Megabytes on a pic? >> Its actually 27 kB zipped from microchip website >> > No website access required. > Look for PK2Vnnnnnn.hex in your PICKit2 directory. nnnnnn is numeric > and depends on the firmware version No. If present, download it using > the PICKit2 application. > > If *that* doesn't work, go online and grab PK2CMDv1-20.zip (118KB of > command line programmer software for the PICKit2) from Microchip. > <http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/PK2CMDv1-20.zip> > unpack it and start a command prompt in its directory. Plug in the > PICKit2, with no target circuit connected, direct to a USB port and run: > > PK2CMD -S# > > to view connected PICKit2's. If it doesn't see it, re-plug with the > button held down (forces bootloader mode - Busy led flashes) then > release the button and try again. > If it sees it, especially if it sees 'bootloader', run > > PK2CMD -D PK2V023200.hex > > If it succeeds, re-plug the PICKit2 and run the GUI software, check it > finds the pod then use tools->troubleshoot... and a multimeter to verify > the ICSP interface is functional. > > If you are still stuck after that you have two possible options, raise a > support request with Microchip, or crack the case and reprogram the > PIC182550-I/SO via J1 the ICSP pads using another known good programmer. > If it fails, order that PIC, replace the U1 chip and program the new > chip with the firmware the same way. > Thanks; will try some (maybe all?) of that. PS: just got another PIC pod; the IDE is v8.30 (had 8.00) and the so-called starter kit CD is (C) 2008 (older one 2006).
From: Robert Baer on 16 Sep 2009 14:11
Spehro Pefhany wrote: > On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:25:58 -0700, the renowned Robert Baer > <robertbaer(a)localnet.com> wrote: > >> David L. Jones wrote: >>> Robert Baer wrote: >>>> David L. Jones wrote: >>>>> Frank Buss wrote: >>>>>> David L. Jones wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Robert Baer wrote: >>>>>>>> You can permanently destroy a PicKit 2 programming pod in an >>>>>>>> easy un-documented manner. >>>>>>>> 1) Tie one or more pins of a PIC MCU to ground; it does not help >>>>>>>> to have MCU program use the pin(s) as inputs. >>>>>>>> 2) Program then power up the MCU with the PicKit 2; you may need >>>>>>>> to do power down and power up a few times. >>>>>>>> ZZZZzzzzzaaaaaa:P:! No Poof, No Frap, No Zap; it just gets >>>>>>>> killed. As far as i can tell the USP port is not damaged; my >>>>>>>> 1Gbyte stick still reads OK. >>>>>> I have no such problems with this test setup: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.frank-buss.de/pic18f2550/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> The PIC is always powered from external power in my test setup. But >>>>>> I noticed that the PicKit pulls VDD to low, if disabled, which was >>>>>> not much of a problem, because of my current limited power supply, >>>>>> but I think this could destroy the prorgammer. >>>>> It can only pull VDD low with a 1K in series, so that isn't going to >>>>> destroy the programmer. >>>>> www.modtronix.com/products/prog/pickit2/pickit2%20datasheet.pdf >>>>> >>>>>>> Err, yes they are, at $35 it's one of the cheapest official >>>>>>> programmers on the market for any micro. >>>>>> There are some other programmers within the same price range: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?keywords=428-2021-ND >>>>>> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?keywords=336-1182-ND >>>>>> >>>>>> But you are right, there are more expensive ones, but then usually >>>>>> with in-circuit debugging support etc. >>>>> The PICkit2 has in-circuit debugging capability, stand-alone field >>>>> programming support, and can power your circuit under test with any >>>>> voltage from 2.8V to 5V. And as a bonus can be used as a 4 logic >>>>> analyser and serial protocol analyser too. Pretty good value for >>>>> money! Dave. >>>>> >>>> There was NO (1K) "protection" resistor (8 lines) from MCU to >>>> ground; at worst 2 pins were shorted. >>> Huh? >>> I'm refering to Frank comment about the PICkit2 circuit and it's ability to >>> pull the VDD pin LOW. >>> According to the schematic for the PICkit2 it's got a 1K series resistor in >>> there for that. >>> >>> Dave. >>> >> There is an *actual* (and correct) schematic for the PicKit-2 >> programming pod? >> Where, oh where pray tell? > > User's Guide, Appendix A. > > > Best regards, > Spehro Pefhany IFFI (eg: if and only if) the appendix exists. It did with the reference given earlier in this thread. |