Proton Radius Cannot Be Derived From Standard Model
in [Relativity]
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From: Y.Porat on 13 May 2010 03:14 On May 12, 8:37 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 12, 10:33 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 12, 8:38 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On May 12, 8:58 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 11, 6:42 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On May 11, 4:52 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On May 11, 2:56 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On May 11, 3:09 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 1:30 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 1:44 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 10:40 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 11:27 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 11, 10:23 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should also work on answering the following with an answer that > > > > > > > > > > > > > does not require the future to determine the past.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? The model accounts for all the experimental evidence. It works > > > > > > > > > > > > just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should also > > > > > > > > > > > > > work on understanding what experimental evidence is. If a C-60 > > > > > > > > > > > > > molecule is ALWAYS detected exiting a single slit in a double slit > > > > > > > > > > > > > experiment this is evidence the C-60 molecule ALWAYS exits a single > > > > > > > > > > > > > slit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it isn't. Sorry, it just isn't. It is evidence that the molecule > > > > > > > > > > > > exits a single slit *when* there is a detector there -- nothing more, > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing less. The presence or absence of the detector changes that > > > > > > > > > > > > claim. > > > > > > > > > > > > The presence of the detector IS the experiment. > > > > > > > > > > > Nonsense. That's not the experiment at all. Do you not understand the > > > > > > > > > > double slit experiment? > > > > > > > > > > In order to determine if the particle exits one or both slits in a > > > > > > > > > double slit experiment, an experiment is performed. The experiment to > > > > > > > > > detect if the particle exits a single slit or both slits places > > > > > > > > > detectors at the exits to the slits. The experiment is called the > > > > > > > > > 'Detector Experiment'. > > > > > > > > > That's fine, but that isn't the double slit experiment. And in the > > > > > > > > double slit experiment, the interesting behavior is what is *observed* > > > > > > > > when there is no detector at either slit. > > > > > > > > > > The 'Detector Experiment' is performed over and over again with all > > > > > > > > > types of particles. After thousands and thousands of executions of the > > > > > > > > > 'Detector Experiment' with hundreds of different types of particles > > > > > > > > > the particle is ALWAYS detected exiting a single slit. The 'Detector > > > > > > > > > Experiment' provides experimental evidence the particle ALWAYS exits a > > > > > > > > > single slit. > > > > > > > > > No, it provides experimental evidence that a particle always exits a > > > > > > > > single slit when there is a detector placed at a slit -- that's all. > > > > > > > > In order to test whether a particle exits a single slit when there is > > > > > > > > no detector at the slit, you're going to have to find a way to do it > > > > > > > > without a detector at the slit. > > > > > > > > > Don't be a doofus. This should be obvious. > > > > > > > > It is obvious if you conclude the particle exits both slits when there > > > > > > > are no detectors at the slit then you are disregarding the > > > > > > > experimental evidence arrived at from the 'Detector Experiment'. > > > > > > > No, we are not. The currently accurately predicts what will be > > > > > > observed when there are detectors at the slits. Hence that data is not > > > > > > being disregarded. > > > > > > It also accurately predicts what will be observed when there are no > > > > > > detectors at the slits. > > > > > > But the experiment is the detectors at the exits. > > > > > No it isn't. Perhaps you need to have a better idea what the double > > > > slit experiment is about. > > > > > > The 'Detector > > > > > Experiment' is experimental evidence the particle ALWAYS exits a > > > > > single slit. > > > > > When there is a detector at the slit. Period. No evidence whatsoever > > > > about what happens when there is no detector at the slits in your > > > > experiment. None. > > > > The experiment IS the placement of the detectors at the exits to the > > > slits. > > > I'm sorry. You don't have the foggiest idea what an experiment is or > > how to test anything in an experiment. You're hopeless, useless, and > > surly. > > I understand exactly what an experiment is. You want experimental > evidence if the particle exits on or both slits so you place detectors > at the exits. The placing of detectors at the exits IS the experiment. > > Only in your state of delusional denial of the Copenhagen > interpretation of QM do you have to disregard the fact that placing > detectors at the exits to the slits in order to determine if the > particle exits one or both slits IS an experiment. > > > > The experimental evidence IS the particle ALWAYS exits a single > > > slit. When you do not perform the experiment and you assume the > > > particle exits both slits, that is exactly what you are doing, > > > assuming. The is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence of the particle EVER exiting > > > both slits. > > > > > > > > That is what you do when you perform experiments. The arrive at > > > > > > > conclusions based upon the experiment. In the 'Detector Experiment' > > > > > > > the particle is ALWAYS detected exiting a single slit so the 'Detector > > > > > > > Experiment' provides experimental evidence the particle ALWAYS exits a > > > > > > > single slit. > > > > > > > No, that would be extrapolating a conclusion beyond what you have data > > > > > > for. You have data for the class of circumstances in which there is a > > > > > > detector at the slits. This data does not allow you to conclude what > > > > > > happens when there is no detector at the slits. You have no data for > > > > > > that in your "detector experiment". You need a different experiment to > > > > > > test what happens when there are no detectors at the slits. > > > > > > > Any bonehead would be able to see that? > > > > > > > Are you not even able to see what a bonehead can see? > > > > > > Anyone who has any clue, except for those in a state of delusional > > > > > denial believing in the Copenhagen interpretation of QM understand > > > > > placing detectors at the exits to the slits is an experiment. If you > > > > > conclude something else occur when you do not perform the experiment > > > > > and you have no evidence of that something else then you are assuming > > > > > something else occurs which is not supported by the experiment > > > > > evidence of the 'Detector Experiment'. > > > > > So I guess the answer is no, you cannot see even what a bonehead would > > > > be able to see. Oh well. > > > > > > > > Now, you can conclude the particle exits both slits when you do not > > > > > > > detect it but that is an assumption that is not based upon any > > > > > > > experimental evidence. The experimental evidence is the particle > > > > > > > ALWAYS exits a single slit. The reason why ALL of the experimental > > > > > > > evidence supports the conclusion the particle ALWAYS exits a single > > > > > > > slit because whenever an experiment is executed in order to determine > > > > > > > if the particle exits one slit or both slits the particle is ALWAYS > > > > > > > detected exiting a single slit. > > > > > > > In experimental science, one learns not to extrapolate findings into > > > > > > circumstances beyond which you have direct experimental support.. You > > > > > > are guilty of scientific fraud here. > > > > > > The Copenhagen interpretation of QM is guilty of scientific fraud for > > > > > assuming the particle exits both slits when not detected. There is no > > > > > evidence the particle exits both slits. All of the experiment evidence > > > > > is of the particle ALWAYS exiting a single slit. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not perform the 'Detector Experiment' and you assume the > > > > > > > > > particle exits both slits your assumption is not supported by the > > > > > > > > > 'Detector Experiment' experimental evidence. > > > > > > > > > But I'm looking at more experimental evidence than your stupid, > > > > > > > > restricted "detector experiment" evidence. I'm also including other > > > > > > > > experiments like the double slit experiment, including the > > > > > > > > configuration when there is no detector at either slit. > > > > > > > > > Geez, what an ignoramus. > > > > > > > > > > > > The experimental > > > > > > > > > > > evidence associated with the experiment is the particle ALWAYS exits a > > > > > > > > > > > single slit. > > > > > > > > > > > No, it isn't. We've just been through that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only in the absurd nonsense of the Copenhagen interpretation of QM do > > > > > > > > > > > you perform an experiment, where the result is the particle ALWAYS > > > > > > > > > > > exits a single slit, then say the opposite occurs when the experiment > > > > > > > > > > > is NOT performed, AND say that that supports the experimental > > > > > > > > > > > evidence. > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, that isn't the experiment at all. Perhaps you need to remind > > > > > > > > > > yourself what the experiment is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Time for you to read up on how this is possible. Would you like a > > > > > > > > > > > > reference to a really good book on this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > PD ------------------- besides E=hf IS NOT THE DEFINITION OF THE REAL SINGL EPHOTON!!! THE REAL SINGLE PHOOTN ENERGY IS exp -44 times smaller !!! no one ever detected it and no one will ever detect it !!! ATB Y.Porat -------------------------------
From: Y.Porat on 13 May 2010 03:29 On May 13, 9:14 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 12, 8:37 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On May 12, 10:33 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On May 12, 8:38 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 12, 8:58 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On May 11, 6:42 pm, mpc755 > > > > > > > > > > > you perform an experiment, where the result is the particle ALWAYS > > > > > > > > > > > > exits a single slit, then say the opposite occurs when the experiment > > > > > > > > > > > > is NOT performed, AND say that that supports the experimental > > > > > > > > > > > > evidence. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, that isn't the experiment at all. Perhaps you need to remind > > > > > > > > > > > yourself what the experiment is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Time for you to read up on how this is possible. Would you like a > > > > > > > > > > > > > reference to a really good book on this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PD > > ------------------- > besides > > E=hf > > IS NOT THE DEFINITION OF THE REAL > SINGL EPHOTON!!! > > THE REAL SINGLE PHOOTN ENERGY IS > > exp -44 times smaller !!! > > no one ever detected it > and no one will ever detect it !!! > > ATB > Y.Porat > ------------------------------- and in addition to the above !!! (dumb mathematicians ) : the proton is not a sphere !! a sphere cannot have unique poles 2 you cant make a sphere from ' 3 quarks "" 3 see My abstract http://sites.google.com/site/theyporatmodel/an-abstract ATB Y.Porat ------------------------------
From: PD on 13 May 2010 09:56 On May 12, 10:44 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > No one, except for the one person who insists the future determines > the past has been able to explain how it is the particle is ALWAYS > detected when detectors are placed at the exits to the slits while the > particle is in the slit(s) and the particle is able to create an > interference pattern when the detectors are placed and removed from > the exits. > You speak of delusional detachment of reality. There are at least a hundred books written by different authors that explain quantum mechanics, and how it is the particle is always detected when detectors are placed at the slits and how the particle is able to create an interference pattern when the detectors are removed from the slits. And yet you say that no one has been able to explain it. Who's delusional here. PD
From: mpc755 on 13 May 2010 10:08 On May 13, 9:56 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 12, 10:44 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > No one, except for the one person who insists the future determines > > the past has been able to explain how it is the particle is ALWAYS > > detected when detectors are placed at the exits to the slits while the > > particle is in the slit(s) and the particle is able to create an > > interference pattern when the detectors are placed and removed from > > the exits. > > You speak of delusional detachment of reality. > > There are at least a hundred books written by different authors that > explain quantum mechanics, and how it is the particle is always > detected when detectors are placed at the slits and how the particle > is able to create an interference pattern when the detectors are > removed from the slits. > > And yet you say that no one has been able to explain it. > > Who's delusional here. > > PD ALL of the books assume the particle exits both slits because it is assumed the particle creates the interference pattern in and of itself. The Copenhagen interpretation of QM is an assumption based upon an assumption. There is ZERO experimental evidence of the particle EVER exiting both slits. A moving particle has an associated wave. A moving particle has an associated external wave. A moving particle has an associated aether wave. The moving particle is ALWAYS detected exiting a single slit because it ALWAYS enters and exits a single slit. This is what ALL of the experimental evidence indicates. The associated aether wave enters and exits both slits and creates interference upon exiting the slits which alters the direction the particle travels. Detecting the particle causes decoherence of the associated aether wave (i.e. turns it into chop) and there is no interference. The associated aether wave is supported by ALL of the experimental evidence. ALL of the experimental evidence indicates the particle ALWAYS enters and exits a single slit.
From: PD on 13 May 2010 10:35
On May 13, 9:08 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On May 13, 9:56 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 12, 10:44 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > No one, except for the one person who insists the future determines > > > the past has been able to explain how it is the particle is ALWAYS > > > detected when detectors are placed at the exits to the slits while the > > > particle is in the slit(s) and the particle is able to create an > > > interference pattern when the detectors are placed and removed from > > > the exits. > > > You speak of delusional detachment of reality. > > > There are at least a hundred books written by different authors that > > explain quantum mechanics, and how it is the particle is always > > detected when detectors are placed at the slits and how the particle > > is able to create an interference pattern when the detectors are > > removed from the slits. > > > And yet you say that no one has been able to explain it. > > > Who's delusional here. > > > PD > > ALL of the books assume the particle exits both slits because it is > assumed the particle creates the interference pattern in and of > itself. And yet you said there is no one who has been able to explain it. That was a lie, and you know it. There really is no point discussing physics with a pathological liar. You see what I mean about you not getting any answers because of your diseased personality? I'll point out that the above statement beginning "ALL of the books..." is ALSO a lie, because you've not read a single one of them. Enjoy your fantasy life. Lie all you want. Howzat working for ya? > > The Copenhagen interpretation of QM is an assumption based upon an > assumption. > > There is ZERO experimental evidence of the particle EVER exiting both > slits. > > A moving particle has an associated wave. A moving particle has an > associated external wave. A moving particle has an associated aether > wave. > > The moving particle is ALWAYS detected exiting a single slit because > it ALWAYS enters and exits a single slit. This is what ALL of the > experimental evidence indicates. > > The associated aether wave enters and exits both slits and creates > interference upon exiting the slits which alters the direction the > particle travels. Detecting the particle causes decoherence of the > associated aether wave (i.e. turns it into chop) and there is no > interference. The associated aether wave is supported by ALL of the > experimental evidence. ALL of the experimental evidence indicates the > particle ALWAYS enters and exits a single slit. |