Question about gravity
in [Physics]
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From: kenseto on 17 Mar 2010 09:49 On Mar 17, 9:14 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 16, 5:08 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 2:57 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 15, 1:43 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 15, 2:27 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 15, 1:25 pm, "kens...(a)erinet.com" <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 10:08 am, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 9:04 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 6:43 am, "Peter Webb" > > > > > > > > > <webbfam...(a)DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Not a whole lot to add to what Inertial in particular said. > > > > > > > > > > In GR, gravity is a virtual force in a similar way to centrifugal force in > > > > > > > > > Newton. In both cases its really an acceleration, and the force is just the > > > > > > > > > product (literally) of this acceleration and the mass of the object. > > > > > > > > > > Einstein in GR gave a geometric interpretation of what gravity is. This is > > > > > > > > > very appealing, because it provides a mechanism for force at a distance. > > > > > > > > > Wrong it provides no such physical mechanism. It merely assumes the > > > > > > > > existence of a physical entity caLLED the fabric of spacetime for the > > > > > > > > interacting object to follow. The problem with such assumption is: > > > > > > > > What is the fabric of spacetime physically? This question is relevant > > > > > > > > because SR/GR deny the existence of physical space. > > > > > > > > > Ken Seto > > > > > > > > What ? ".... SR/GR deny the existence of physical space......." > > > > > > > > What the devil are you saying man ????? > > > > > > > > The theory of relativity says that gravity IS deformation of space. > > > > > > > How can this same theory deny the existence of space ??? Better visit > > > > > > > your optometrist really, really soon. > > > > > > > Sigh...How can you deform space when space is defined by Einstein as > > > > > > "empty space".???? > > > > > > Being empty means it has no matter in it. Having no matter in it does > > > > > not mean that space cannot have physical properties. Physical > > > > > properties are not limited to matter. > > > > > Bullshit. fields are stresses in a solid medium occupying space > > > > according to steven weinberg > > > > Solid medium? He said nothing about an electric field being a stress > > > in a solid medium. > > > Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? > > > On page 25 he said A field like an electric field or a magnetic field > > is a sort of stress in space, something like the various sorts of > > stress possible within a soild body, but a field is a stress in space > > itself. > > Note what Weinberg actually said: "...something LIKE the various sorts > of stress possible within a solid body, but a field is a stress IN > SPACE ITSELF." He does not say that stress only happens in solid > bodies. He says that stress happens in solid bodies AND in empty > space, and the stress in empty space is something like the stress in > solid bodies. This does NOT mean that empty space is a solid body. No stress can exit in liquid or gas. Stress can exist only in solid. So if stress exits in space as weinberg claimed then space must be a solid. Your ranting and parsing of words is irrelevant. Ken Seto > > > > > > > > Physical properties are not limited to matter. > > > > You know that there is a permittivity of EMPTY SPACE? You know there > > > is a permeability of EMPTY SPACE? You know there is an impedance of > > > EMPTY SPACE? You know there is a gravitational potential in EMPTY > > > SPACE?- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: kenseto on 17 Mar 2010 09:59 On Mar 17, 9:18 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 16, 5:16 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 16, 9:55 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 16, 8:49 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 15, 2:57 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 15, 1:43 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 2:27 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 1:25 pm, "kens...(a)erinet.com" <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 10:08 am, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 9:04 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 6:43 am, "Peter Webb" > > > > > > > > > > > <webbfam...(a)DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Not a whole lot to add to what Inertial in particular said. > > > > > > > > > > > > In GR, gravity is a virtual force in a similar way to centrifugal force in > > > > > > > > > > > Newton. In both cases its really an acceleration, and the force is just the > > > > > > > > > > > product (literally) of this acceleration and the mass of the object. > > > > > > > > > > > > Einstein in GR gave a geometric interpretation of what gravity is. This is > > > > > > > > > > > very appealing, because it provides a mechanism for force at a distance. > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong it provides no such physical mechanism. It merely assumes the > > > > > > > > > > existence of a physical entity caLLED the fabric of spacetime for the > > > > > > > > > > interacting object to follow. The problem with such assumption is: > > > > > > > > > > What is the fabric of spacetime physically? This question is relevant > > > > > > > > > > because SR/GR deny the existence of physical space. > > > > > > > > > > > Ken Seto > > > > > > > > > > What ? ".... SR/GR deny the existence of physical space......" > > > > > > > > > > What the devil are you saying man ????? > > > > > > > > > > The theory of relativity says that gravity IS deformation of space. > > > > > > > > > How can this same theory deny the existence of space ??? Better visit > > > > > > > > > your optometrist really, really soon. > > > > > > > > > Sigh...How can you deform space when space is defined by Einstein as > > > > > > > > "empty space".???? > > > > > > > > Being empty means it has no matter in it. Having no matter in it does > > > > > > > not mean that space cannot have physical properties. Physical > > > > > > > properties are not limited to matter. > > > > > > > Bullshit. fields are stresses in a solid medium occupying space > > > > > > according to steven weinberg > > > > > > Solid medium? He said nothing about an electric field being a stress > > > > > in a solid medium. > > > > > Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? > > > > > Hey idiot...His said that in his book "Dream of a final theory" > > > > I have that book. Cite the page. He does not say that fields are > > > stresses in a solid medium. > > > On page 25 he said A field like an electric field or a magnetic field > > is a sort of stress in space, something like the various sorts of > > stress possible within a soild body, but a field is a stress in space > > itself. > > OK, the above is what Weinberg said. > > > BTW only solid body can have stress > > This is what YOU say, not what Weinberg said. > > > so weinberg implied that space is > > a solid body. > > No, he did not, because he does not say that only solid bodies can > have stress. In fact, he said that empty space can have stress too. Sure he implied that...that's the reason why he compared stress in space with stresses in solids. BTW he did not say "empty space" he said "space". This is to avoid the implication that space is empty. Ken Seto > > Ken, you have this nasty habit of combining something that Weinberg > says with something YOU say, and then claiming that the conclusion > from the combination is what Weinberg says. You have this nasty habit > of combining something that Einstein says with something YOU say, and > then claiming that the conclusion from the combination is what > Einstein says. You have this nasty habit of combining something that I > say with something YOU say, and then claiming that the conclusion from > the combination is what I say. > > When you do this, you are LYING. > > Weinberg did NOT say that an electric field is a stress in a solid > body. He said that an electric field is a stress in empty space. > Weinberg did NOT say that only solid bodies can have stress; YOU did. > When you claimed Weinberg said it, you were LYING. > > > > > > > Ken Seto > > > > > > Physical properties are not limited to matter. > > > > > > You know that there is a permittivity of EMPTY SPACE? You know there > > > > > is a permeability of EMPTY SPACE? You know there is an impedance of > > > > > EMPTY SPACE? You know there is a gravitational potential in EMPTY > > > > > SPACE > > > > > Empty space by definition cannot have property. > > > > That is incorrect. Empty space means devoid of matter. It does NOT > > > mean devoid of physical properties. > > > > > permittvity and > > > > permeability are properties of a unique medium occupying space. > > > > That is incorrect. Read your freshman physics text where these > > > properties are discussed. These properties have been ascribed to empty > > > space for 150 years. > > > > > Ken Seto- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: PD on 17 Mar 2010 10:01 On Mar 17, 8:49 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > On Mar 17, 9:14 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 16, 5:08 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 15, 2:57 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 15, 1:43 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 15, 2:27 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 1:25 pm, "kens...(a)erinet.com" <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 10:08 am, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 9:04 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 6:43 am, "Peter Webb" > > > > > > > > > > <webbfam...(a)DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Not a whole lot to add to what Inertial in particular said. > > > > > > > > > > > In GR, gravity is a virtual force in a similar way to centrifugal force in > > > > > > > > > > Newton. In both cases its really an acceleration, and the force is just the > > > > > > > > > > product (literally) of this acceleration and the mass of the object. > > > > > > > > > > > Einstein in GR gave a geometric interpretation of what gravity is. This is > > > > > > > > > > very appealing, because it provides a mechanism for force at a distance. > > > > > > > > > > Wrong it provides no such physical mechanism. It merely assumes the > > > > > > > > > existence of a physical entity caLLED the fabric of spacetime for the > > > > > > > > > interacting object to follow. The problem with such assumption is: > > > > > > > > > What is the fabric of spacetime physically? This question is relevant > > > > > > > > > because SR/GR deny the existence of physical space. > > > > > > > > > > Ken Seto > > > > > > > > > What ? ".... SR/GR deny the existence of physical space......." > > > > > > > > > What the devil are you saying man ????? > > > > > > > > > The theory of relativity says that gravity IS deformation of space. > > > > > > > > How can this same theory deny the existence of space ??? Better visit > > > > > > > > your optometrist really, really soon. > > > > > > > > Sigh...How can you deform space when space is defined by Einstein as > > > > > > > "empty space".???? > > > > > > > Being empty means it has no matter in it. Having no matter in it does > > > > > > not mean that space cannot have physical properties. Physical > > > > > > properties are not limited to matter. > > > > > > Bullshit. fields are stresses in a solid medium occupying space > > > > > according to steven weinberg > > > > > Solid medium? He said nothing about an electric field being a stress > > > > in a solid medium. > > > > Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? > > > > On page 25 he said A field like an electric field or a magnetic field > > > is a sort of stress in space, something like the various sorts of > > > stress possible within a soild body, but a field is a stress in space > > > itself. > > > Note what Weinberg actually said: "...something LIKE the various sorts > > of stress possible within a solid body, but a field is a stress IN > > SPACE ITSELF." He does not say that stress only happens in solid > > bodies. He says that stress happens in solid bodies AND in empty > > space, and the stress in empty space is something like the stress in > > solid bodies. This does NOT mean that empty space is a solid body. > > No stress can exit in liquid or gas. Stress can exist only in solid. This is an incorrect statement, Ken. It is just flat wrong. When you add your mistake to a correct statement that Weinberg makes, this is only going to make your conclusion wrong. > So if stress exits in space as weinberg claimed then space must be a > solid. Your ranting and parsing of words is irrelevant. Sorry, Ken, but pointing out a mistake of yours is not irrelevant. When you can learn to acknowledge mistakes, then you will start to make progress. But since you always claim that remarks by others about your mistakes are irrelevant, you will never get off square one. You have to get over your personality defects before you will be able to do science. It will help also to learn some basic physics, like what is taught in your freshman textbook. > > Ken Seto > > > > > > > Physical properties are not limited to matter. > > > > > You know that there is a permittivity of EMPTY SPACE? You know there > > > > is a permeability of EMPTY SPACE? You know there is an impedance of > > > > EMPTY SPACE? You know there is a gravitational potential in EMPTY > > > > SPACE?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > >
From: kenseto on 17 Mar 2010 10:12 On Mar 17, 9:11 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 16, 4:28 pm, "kens...(a)erinet.com" <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 16, 5:03 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 16, 2:55 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > Read your freshman physics book. It says differently. > > > > > Why do I need to read my freshman physics book when I already told you > > > > that I disagree with it? > > > > Ah, OK then, just so we're clear. You have a basic freshman physics > > > book, but you don't believe even the basic stuff that's in there. So > > > your problem is not with relativity, but with ALL of physics. > > > No I don't believe that you can have physical fields in empty space > > and at the same > > time denying that empty space is just another term for a unique > > material occupying all of space.That's what I am disagreeing. > > You disagree with a lot of things in your freshman physics text. You > disagree that an object dropped from a plane stays under the plane, so > that in the plane frame it falls vertically, even though your book > tells you so. No in the plane frame the crate still not directly under the plane all the time. It encountered air resistance and thus slowed down horizontally compared to the plane. >(You even have trouble seeing this in the plane frame at > all.) You disagree that physical fields exist in empty space, Fields are stress in SPACE according to Weinberg. He said that much like stresses in solids. This means that SPACE is just another term for a unique solid physical medium. Ken Seto >even > though your book tells you so. You disagree that empty space has > physical properties like permittivity, permeability, impedance, even > though your book tells you so. You disagree that fields have momentum > and energy, even though your book tells you so. There's lots of places > in your freshman text where you just don't get it. > > > > > > > Ken Seto > > > > And so you have this little fantasy going where you are going to make > > > up something out of your head that replaces ALL of physics, even stuff > > > that has been understood for 400 years. > > > > You have a fixed (but limited) understanding of what you think physics > > > should be about, and you are willing to dispense with even the basics > > > in a freshman physics text if it does not agree with that > > > understanding. > > > > Very good. Now we understand what level crank you are. > > > > PD- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: PD on 17 Mar 2010 10:52
On Mar 17, 8:59 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > On Mar 17, 9:18 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 16, 5:16 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > On Mar 16, 9:55 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 16, 8:49 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 15, 2:57 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 1:43 pm, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 2:27 pm, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 1:25 pm, "kens...(a)erinet.com" <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 10:08 am, Huang <huangxienc...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 9:04 am, kenseto <kens...(a)erinet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 6:43 am, "Peter Webb" > > > > > > > > > > > > <webbfam...(a)DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a whole lot to add to what Inertial in particular said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In GR, gravity is a virtual force in a similar way to centrifugal force in > > > > > > > > > > > > Newton. In both cases its really an acceleration, and the force is just the > > > > > > > > > > > > product (literally) of this acceleration and the mass of the object. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Einstein in GR gave a geometric interpretation of what gravity is. This is > > > > > > > > > > > > very appealing, because it provides a mechanism for force at a distance. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong it provides no such physical mechanism. It merely assumes the > > > > > > > > > > > existence of a physical entity caLLED the fabric of spacetime for the > > > > > > > > > > > interacting object to follow. The problem with such assumption is: > > > > > > > > > > > What is the fabric of spacetime physically? This question is relevant > > > > > > > > > > > because SR/GR deny the existence of physical space. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ken Seto > > > > > > > > > > > What ? ".... SR/GR deny the existence of physical space......" > > > > > > > > > > > What the devil are you saying man ????? > > > > > > > > > > > The theory of relativity says that gravity IS deformation of space. > > > > > > > > > > How can this same theory deny the existence of space ??? Better visit > > > > > > > > > > your optometrist really, really soon. > > > > > > > > > > Sigh...How can you deform space when space is defined by Einstein as > > > > > > > > > "empty space".???? > > > > > > > > > Being empty means it has no matter in it. Having no matter in it does > > > > > > > > not mean that space cannot have physical properties. Physical > > > > > > > > properties are not limited to matter. > > > > > > > > Bullshit. fields are stresses in a solid medium occupying space > > > > > > > according to steven weinberg > > > > > > > Solid medium? He said nothing about an electric field being a stress > > > > > > in a solid medium. > > > > > > Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? > > > > > > Hey idiot...His said that in his book "Dream of a final theory" > > > > > I have that book. Cite the page. He does not say that fields are > > > > stresses in a solid medium. > > > > On page 25 he said A field like an electric field or a magnetic field > > > is a sort of stress in space, something like the various sorts of > > > stress possible within a soild body, but a field is a stress in space > > > itself. > > > OK, the above is what Weinberg said. > > > > BTW only solid body can have stress > > > This is what YOU say, not what Weinberg said. > > > > so weinberg implied that space is > > > a solid body. > > > No, he did not, because he does not say that only solid bodies can > > have stress. In fact, he said that empty space can have stress too. > > Sure he implied that...that's the reason why he compared stress in > space with stresses in solids. BTW he did not say "empty space" he > said "space". This is to avoid the implication that space is empty. > Ken Seto Oh Ken. Your poor tortured mind will go through so many twisted convolutions to provide a rationalization for itself. OK, there's no point in arguing with a madman. > > > > > Ken, you have this nasty habit of combining something that Weinberg > > says with something YOU say, and then claiming that the conclusion > > from the combination is what Weinberg says. You have this nasty habit > > of combining something that Einstein says with something YOU say, and > > then claiming that the conclusion from the combination is what > > Einstein says. You have this nasty habit of combining something that I > > say with something YOU say, and then claiming that the conclusion from > > the combination is what I say. > > > When you do this, you are LYING. > > > Weinberg did NOT say that an electric field is a stress in a solid > > body. He said that an electric field is a stress in empty space. > > Weinberg did NOT say that only solid bodies can have stress; YOU did. > > When you claimed Weinberg said it, you were LYING. > > > > Ken Seto > > > > > > > Physical properties are not limited to matter. > > > > > > > You know that there is a permittivity of EMPTY SPACE? You know there > > > > > > is a permeability of EMPTY SPACE? You know there is an impedance of > > > > > > EMPTY SPACE? You know there is a gravitational potential in EMPTY > > > > > > SPACE > > > > > > Empty space by definition cannot have property. > > > > > That is incorrect. Empty space means devoid of matter. It does NOT > > > > mean devoid of physical properties. > > > > > > permittvity and > > > > > permeability are properties of a unique medium occupying space. > > > > > That is incorrect. Read your freshman physics text where these > > > > properties are discussed. These properties have been ascribed to empty > > > > space for 150 years. > > > > > > Ken Seto- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > |