****Re: Experts doubt Einstein..... but Einstein Dingleberries still worship him
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From: Sue... on 7 Jun 2010 10:25 On Jun 7, 9:42Â am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 7, 7:25Â am, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: > > > > > See below.... > > > On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Sue... wrote: > > > On Jun 6, 10:37Â pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: > > > > [...] > > > >> No, only hedging my "position" to account for the two schools of thought. > > > > Why not look at a third school of thought? > > > Molecular dynamics has more than 32 screws > > > you can turn and the folks that know how to turn > > > them make a lot more money than USNO staffers. > > > > Emergent gravity > > >http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2005-12/articlesu25..... > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity > > > > Sue... > > > I actually had a quick look. Wow. Third school of thought? I saw a lot > > more theories there than three. I seem to have run across some of those > > names, but not as many in one place as that entry. > > > Making more money than USNO? I can relate to that. > > > Emergent gravity? Is that supposed to mean its constantly > > changing/growing? Or, is there some science-fiction mixed in there? > > > I'm affraid I'll have to concede defeat if I have to learn all that other > > stuff. And, its bad enough to cope with dozens of books that question E/R > > but to think I could spend time on it and think I'm understanding any of > > it might be self-delusion. > > > Have you looked at any of that stuff? > > > How much of it do YOU understand? > > 'Vacuum Quantum Fluctuations in Curved Space > and the Theory of Gravitation > Academician A. D. Sakharov'http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~akempf/sakharov.pdf > > "In Einsteinâs theory of gravitation one postulates that the action of > spacetime depends on the curvature (R is the invariant of the Ricci > tensor): > > S(R) = â 1/16ÏG (dx)ââgR. > > The presence of the action leads to a âmetrical elasticityâ of space, > i.e., to generalized forces which oppose the curving of space. Here we > consider the hypothesis which identifies the action with the change in > the action of quantum fluctuations of the vacuum if space is curved. > Thus, we consider the metrical elasticity of space as a sort of level > displacement effect." > ============ > What Sakharov is referring to is Aether Displacement. > > 'Emergent Gravity' is Aether Displacement. If I may suggest a real experiment. Take your theory to a theatre and read it aloud while you are waiting in the ticket queue. When someone punches you so you are more horizontal than vertical take a photograph and write "polarization" on the back. When someone shoves you out of the queue so you loose your place, and can't get in, take a photograph of that too, but write "displacement" on the back of it. When your bruises heal, the photos might help your ability to read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_of_free_space http://espg.sr.unh.edu/ism/what1.html Sue... > > Aether is an elastic medium. The aether 'opposes' the curving of > space. The aether 'opposes' its displacement. This is the pressure > exerted by the displaced aether towards the matter. > > The 'displacement effect' is the displacement of the aether by matter. > > 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html > > "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections > with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... > disregarding the causes which condition its state." > > The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the > matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the > aether's state of displacement.
From: mpc755 on 7 Jun 2010 10:47 On Jun 7, 10:25Â am, "Sue..." <suzysewns...(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > On Jun 7, 9:42Â am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 7, 7:25Â am, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: > > > > See below.... > > > > On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Sue... wrote: > > > > On Jun 6, 10:37Â pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: > > > > > [...] > > > > >> No, only hedging my "position" to account for the two schools of thought. > > > > > Why not look at a third school of thought? > > > > Molecular dynamics has more than 32 screws > > > > you can turn and the folks that know how to turn > > > > them make a lot more money than USNO staffers. > > > > > Emergent gravity > > > >http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2005-12/articlesu25..... > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity > > > > > Sue... > > > > I actually had a quick look. Wow. Third school of thought? I saw a lot > > > more theories there than three. I seem to have run across some of those > > > names, but not as many in one place as that entry. > > > > Making more money than USNO? I can relate to that. > > > > Emergent gravity? Is that supposed to mean its constantly > > > changing/growing? Or, is there some science-fiction mixed in there? > > > > I'm affraid I'll have to concede defeat if I have to learn all that other > > > stuff. And, its bad enough to cope with dozens of books that question E/R > > > but to think I could spend time on it and think I'm understanding any of > > > it might be self-delusion. > > > > Have you looked at any of that stuff? > > > > How much of it do YOU understand? > > > 'Vacuum Quantum Fluctuations in Curved Space > > and the Theory of Gravitation > > Academician A. D. Sakharov'http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~akempf/sakharov.pdf > > > "In Einsteinâs theory of gravitation one postulates that the action of > > spacetime depends on the curvature (R is the invariant of the Ricci > > tensor): > > > S(R) = â 1/16ÏG (dx)ââgR. > > > The presence of the action leads to a âmetrical elasticityâ of space, > > i.e., to generalized forces which oppose the curving of space. Here we > > consider the hypothesis which identifies the action with the change in > > the action of quantum fluctuations of the vacuum if space is curved. > > Thus, we consider the metrical elasticity of space as a sort of level > > displacement effect." > > ============ > > > What Sakharov is referring to is Aether Displacement. > > > 'Emergent Gravity' is Aether Displacement. > > If I may suggest a real experiment. > > Take your theory to a theatre and read it > aloud while you are waiting in the ticket queue. > > When someone punches you so you are > more horizontal than vertical take > a photograph and write "polarization" > on the back. > > When someone shoves you out of the > queue so you loose your place, and can't > get in, Â take a photograph of that too, but > write "displacement" on the back of it. > > When your bruises heal, the photos might > help your ability to read. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_of_free_spacehttp://espg.sr.unh.edu/ism/what1.html > > Sue... > > > > > Aether is an elastic medium. The aether 'opposes' the curving of > > space. The aether 'opposes' its displacement. This is the pressure > > exerted by the displaced aether towards the matter. > > > The 'displacement effect' is the displacement of the aether by matter. > > > 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html > > > "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections > > with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... > > disregarding the causes which condition its state." > > > The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the > > matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the > > aether's state of displacement. > > 'Vacuum Quantum Fluctuations in Curved Space and the Theory of Gravitation Academician A. D. Sakharov' http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~akempf/sakharov.pdf "In Einsteinâs theory of gravitation one postulates that the action of spacetime depends on the curvature (R is the invariant of the Ricci tensor): S(R) = â 1/16ÏG (dx)ââgR. The presence of the action leads to a âmetrical elasticityâ of space, i.e., to generalized forces which oppose the curving of space. Here we consider the hypothesis which identifies the action with the change in the action of quantum fluctuations of the vacuum if space is curved. Thus, we consider the metrical elasticity of space as a sort of level displacement effect." What Sakharov is referring to is Aether Displacement. 'Emergent Gravity' is Aether Displacement. Aether is an elastic medium. The aether 'opposes' the curving of space. The aether 'opposes' its displacement. This is the pressure exerted by the displaced aether towards the matter. The 'displacement effect' is the displacement of the aether by matter. 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein' http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state." The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the aether's state of displacement.
From: Me, ...again! on 7 Jun 2010 13:25 On Mon, 7 Jun 2010, Sue... wrote: > On Jun 7, 7:25 am, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: >> See below.... >> >> >> >> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Sue... wrote: >>> On Jun 6, 10:37 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: >> >>> [...] >> >>>> No, only hedging my "position" to account for the two schools of thought. >> >>> Why not look at a third school of thought? >>> Molecular dynamics has more than 32 screws >>> you can turn and the folks that know how to turn >>> them make a lot more money than USNO staffers. >> >>> Emergent gravity >>> > http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2005-12/articlesu25.html#x34-720006.3 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity >> >>> Sue... >> >> I actually had a quick look. Wow. Third school of thought? I saw a lot >> more theories there than three. I seem to have run across some of those >> names, but not as many in one place as that entry. > > Which of the others are: > > -Higgless > -Unified with EM > -Quantitatively similar to GR > >> >> Making more money than USNO? I can relate to that. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_dynamics#Examples_of_applications > >> >> Emergent gravity? Is that supposed to mean its constantly >> changing/growing? Or, is there some science-fiction mixed in there? > > I prefer the name Induction Gravity. There > is no reason to allude to "creation" theories > except, as already mentioned, it might improve > book sales. The term does not appear in > Wolfram's index. Anyway, BB needs a > gravity mechanism a lot more than > any gravity mechanism needs BB so I > don't fret over it. I think my birds and squirrels don't need either BB or gravity theories. Gravity has been around all my life. I'm comfortable with it. More below.... > >> >> I'm affraid I'll have to concede defeat if I have to learn all that other >> stuff. And, its bad enough to cope with dozens of books that question E/R >> but to think I could spend time on it and think I'm understanding any of >> it might be self-delusion. > > Suspend a pair of amber rods in your kitchen. All I have is two fly-swatters. Will they work? ;-) > Even your squirrel can follow the first diagram to > charge them with his tail and demonstrate induced > dipole attraction. I can do that with a comb after it picks up dandruf on the way through the last of my remaining hair. > The Origin of Gravity > Authors: C. P. Kouropoulos > http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0107015 > >> >> Have you looked at any of that stuff? > > I have been looking at it for about 10 years. OK > But W.Weber was probably the first. > >> >> How much of it do YOU understand? > > I understand it fills a huge void > so I have a huge understanding. :-)) That's not quite the answer I'm looking for, but I'll give you a pass (tentatively), for now, and we can negotiate a higher grade, later. See below... > << Einstein published his theory of gravitation, or > general theory of relativity, in 1916. And so a new > paradigm, or set of beliefs, ^^^^^^^^^^ I love that word, "beliefs," its a nice PC-rug under which a lot of dirt can be swept. was established. It was > not until 1930 that Fritz London explained the weak, > attractive dipolar electric bonding force (known as > Van der Waals dispersion force or the London force) > that causes gas molecules to condense and form liquids > and solids. Like gravity, the London force is always > attractive and operates between electrically neutral > molecules.And that precise property has been the most > puzzling distinction between gravity and the powerful > electromagnetic forces, which may repel as well as > attract. >> > http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=r4k29syp > > Of course, if you have a link to LHC that > demonstrates a better mechanism, it may not > be so important. ;-) At my age, what is important is cancer, heart-attacks, and Alzheimer's Disease. Decades from now, I think, you might also agree with me. But, alternatively, I could be wrong. Thanks for your responses. Does your pet rock need any company? I have a few rocks outside around my house. > Sue... > > > > > >
From: Me, ...again! on 7 Jun 2010 13:29 On Mon, 7 Jun 2010, Sue... wrote: > On Jun 7, 9:42Â am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Jun 7, 7:25Â am, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> See below.... >> >>> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Sue... wrote: >>>> On Jun 6, 10:37Â pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: >> >>>> [...] >> >>>>> No, only hedging my "position" to account for the two schools of thought. >> >>>> Why not look at a third school of thought? >>>> Molecular dynamics has more than 32 screws >>>> you can turn and the folks that know how to turn >>>> them make a lot more money than USNO staffers. >> >>>> Emergent gravity >>>> http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2005-12/articlesu25.... >> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity >> >>>> Sue... >> >>> I actually had a quick look. Wow. Third school of thought? I saw a lot >>> more theories there than three. I seem to have run across some of those >>> names, but not as many in one place as that entry. >> >>> Making more money than USNO? I can relate to that. >> >>> Emergent gravity? Is that supposed to mean its constantly >>> changing/growing? Or, is there some science-fiction mixed in there? >> >>> I'm affraid I'll have to concede defeat if I have to learn all that other >>> stuff. And, its bad enough to cope with dozens of books that question E/R >>> but to think I could spend time on it and think I'm understanding any of >>> it might be self-delusion. >> >>> Have you looked at any of that stuff? >> >>> How much of it do YOU understand? >> >> 'Vacuum Quantum Fluctuations in Curved Space >> and the Theory of Gravitation >> Academician A. D. Sakharov'http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~akempf/sakharov.pdf >> >> "In Einsteinâs theory of gravitation one postulates that the action of >> spacetime depends on the curvature (R is the invariant of the Ricci >> tensor): >> >> S(R) = â 1/16ÏG (dx)ââgR. >> >> The presence of the action leads to a âmetrical elasticityâ of space, >> i.e., to generalized forces which oppose the curving of space. Here we >> consider the hypothesis which identifies the action with the change in >> the action of quantum fluctuations of the vacuum if space is curved. >> Thus, we consider the metrical elasticity of space as a sort of level >> displacement effect." >> > > ============ > >> What Sakharov is referring to is Aether Displacement. >> >> 'Emergent Gravity' is Aether Displacement. > > If I may suggest a real experiment. > > Take your theory to a theatre and read it > aloud while you are waiting in the ticket queue. > > When someone punches you so you are > more horizontal than vertical take > a photograph and write "polarization" > on the back. Can I make a wager on this? > When someone shoves you out of the > queue so you loose your place, and can't > get in, take a photograph of that too, but > write "displacement" on the back of it. > > When your bruises heal, the photos might > help your ability to read. Can I make a wager on this, too? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_of_free_space > http://espg.sr.unh.edu/ism/what1.html > > Sue... You don't have to answer. ;-) But could I contribute my own "theory of gravitation"? If so, I'll work on it after sundown, tonight. ////////////////////////////////////////// > > > >> >> Aether is an elastic medium. The aether 'opposes' the curving of >> space. The aether 'opposes' its displacement. This is the pressure >> exerted by the displaced aether towards the matter. >> >> The 'displacement effect' is the displacement of the aether by matter. >> >> 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html >> >> "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections >> with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... >> disregarding the causes which condition its state." >> >> The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the >> matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the >> aether's state of displacement. > >
From: Sue... on 7 Jun 2010 14:05
On Jun 7, 1:25 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jun 2010, Sue... wrote: > > On Jun 7, 7:25 am, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: > >> See below.... > > >> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Sue... wrote: > >>> On Jun 6, 10:37 pm, "Me, ...again!" <arthu...(a)mv.com> wrote: > > >>> [...] > > >>>> No, only hedging my "position" to account for the two schools of thought. > > >>> Why not look at a third school of thought? > >>> Molecular dynamics has more than 32 screws > >>> you can turn and the folks that know how to turn > >>> them make a lot more money than USNO staffers. > > >>> Emergent gravity > > >http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2005-12/articlesu25.... > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity > > >>> Sue... > > >> I actually had a quick look. Wow. Third school of thought? I saw a lot > >> more theories there than three. I seem to have run across some of those > >> names, but not as many in one place as that entry. > > > Which of the others are: > > > -Higgless > > -Unified with EM > > -Quantitatively similar to GR > > >> Making more money than USNO? I can relate to that. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_dynamics#Examples_of_applications > > >> Emergent gravity? Is that supposed to mean its constantly > >> changing/growing? Or, is there some science-fiction mixed in there? > > > I prefer the name Induction Gravity. There > > is no reason to allude to "creation" theories > > except, as already mentioned, it might improve > > book sales. The term does not appear in > > Wolfram's index. Anyway, BB needs a > > gravity mechanism a lot more than > > any gravity mechanism needs BB so I > > don't fret over it. > > I think my birds and squirrels don't need either BB or gravity theories. > Gravity has been around all my life. I'm comfortable with it. > > More below.... > > > > >> I'm affraid I'll have to concede defeat if I have to learn all that other > >> stuff. And, its bad enough to cope with dozens of books that question E/R > >> but to think I could spend time on it and think I'm understanding any of > >> it might be self-delusion. > > > Suspend a pair of amber rods in your kitchen. > > All I have is two fly-swatters. Will they work? ;-) > > > Even your squirrel can follow the first diagram to > > charge them with his tail and demonstrate induced > > dipole attraction. > > I can do that with a comb after it picks up dandruf on the way through the > last of my remaining hair. Hell hath no fury like a bold squirrel that feels left out. They invite all their friends to a commando raid on your larder. > > > The Origin of Gravity > > Authors: C. P. Kouropoulos http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0107015 > > >> Have you looked at any of that stuff? > > > I have been looking at it for about 10 years. > > OK > > > But W.Weber was probably the first. > > >> How much of it do YOU understand? > > > I understand it fills a huge void > > so I have a huge understanding. :-)) > > That's not quite the answer I'm looking for, but I'll give you a pass > (tentatively), for now, and we can negotiate a higher grade, later. > > See below... > > > << Einstein published his theory of gravitation, or > > general theory of relativity, in 1916. And so a new > > paradigm, or set of beliefs, > > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > I love that word, "beliefs," its a nice PC-rug under which a lot of dirt > can be swept. It is usually tolerated 'till some experimentalist finds she has to measure belief-fields to test a theory. Then the jig is up. > > was established. It was > > > not until 1930 that Fritz London explained the weak, > > attractive dipolar electric bonding force (known as > > Van der Waals dispersion force or the London force) > > that causes gas molecules to condense and form liquids > > and solids. Like gravity, the London force is always > > attractive and operates between electrically neutral > > molecules.And that precise property has been the most > > puzzling distinction between gravity and the powerful > > electromagnetic forces, which may repel as well as > > attract. >> > >http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=r4k29syp > > > Of course, if you have a link to LHC that > > demonstrates a better mechanism, it may not > > be so important. ;-) > > At my age, what is important is cancer, heart-attacks, and Alzheimer's > Disease. Decades from now, I think, you might also agree with me. But, > alternatively, I could be wrong. > > Thanks for your responses. > > Does your pet rock need any company? I have a few rocks outside around my > house. In dog years, a star mathematician's career isn't that much longer than a star female gymnast. (Don't they get training bras as retirement gifts?) If your sums are getting a little rusty (mine never had a shine) that is all the more reason to study the mechanisms of molecular dynamics rather than the formalism of GR. Computers do the heavy lifing in MD. If LHC can't find their god-particles then you might be a step ahead of the game. If they do, you still have some powerul tools for understanding some of the most exciting work going on today. Toy models are a lot more fun than quantitative models so *do* get your birds and squirrels to explain the first figure below if you are not already familiar with it. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0107015 Sue... > > > Sue... > > |