Simultaneity of Relativity
in [Relativity]
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From: YBM on 31 Oct 2009 23:44 mpc755 wrote: > [idiocies] >> as the light waves interacted with the moving aether. > > Point of clarification: There is nothing to clarify: this is bullshit from start to finish.
From: mpc755 on 1 Nov 2009 19:32 On Oct 8, 11:49 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > thought experiment: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk Einstein says in order for the propagation of light to exist there must be aether. Einstein also says the idea of motion may not be applied to aether. I conclude this means aether must be at rest relative to the embankment and at rest relative to the train which is physically impossible if the embankment frame of reference and the train frame of reference occupy the same three dimensional space.
From: mpc755 on 1 Nov 2009 22:13 On Nov 1, 7:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 8, 11:49 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > > thought experiment: > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > Einstein says in order for the propagation of light to exist there > must be aether. Einstein also says the idea of motion may not be > applied to aether. > > I conclude this means aether must be at rest relative to the > embankment and at rest relative to the train which is physically > impossible if the embankment frame of reference and the train frame of > reference occupy the same three dimensional space. mpc755 train thought experiment. The train is moving perpendicular to the line A and B exist on. The train is wide enough that A' and B' exist on opposite sides of the aisle. Here is an image of the train and the embankment and the corresponding locations prior to the lightning strikes. The arrows represent the train moving towards the embankment as viewed from the embankment frame of reference: A-----M-----B ^ ^ ^ | | | | | | A'----M'----B' When the lightning strike occurs at A/A', A and A' exist at the same point in three dimensional space. When the lightning strike occurs at B/B', B and B' exist at the same point in three dimensional space. The train continues to move perpendicular to the line A and B exist on after the lightning strikes. This is what the embankment and train look like after the lightning strikes. The arrows indicate the train moving away from the embankment as viewed from the embankment frame of reference: A'----M'----B' ^ ^ ^ | | | | | | A-----M-----B If the light from A and B reaches M simultaneously, the light from A' and B' reaches M' simultaneously because A/A' was a single lightning strike and B/B' was a single lightning strike and A and M, B and M, A' and M', and B' and M' are equi-distant. But this requires the light to travel from four locations to each Observer. It is either that or the light travels from A and B to M and M', making the embankment the preferred frame or the light travels from A' and B' to M and M', making the train the preferred frame. I don't think this can be resolved in Relativity of Simultaneity.
From: mpc755 on 1 Nov 2009 22:22 On Nov 1, 10:13 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Nov 1, 7:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 8, 11:49 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > > > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > > > thought experiment: > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > > Einstein says in order for the propagation of light to exist there > > must be aether. Einstein also says the idea of motion may not be > > applied to aether. > > > I conclude this means aether must be at rest relative to the > > embankment and at rest relative to the train which is physically > > impossible if the embankment frame of reference and the train frame of > > reference occupy the same three dimensional space. > > mpc755 train thought experiment. > > The train is moving perpendicular to the line A and B exist on. > The train is wide enough that A' and B' exist on opposite sides of the > aisle. > > Here is an image of the train and the embankment and the corresponding > locations prior to the lightning strikes. The arrows represent the > train moving towards the embankment as viewed from the embankment > frame of reference: > > A-----M-----B > ^ ^ ^ > | | | > | | | > A'----M'----B' > > When the lightning strike occurs at A/A', A and A' exist at the same > point in three dimensional space. When the lightning strike occurs at > B/B', B and B' exist at the same point in three dimensional space. > > The train continues to move perpendicular to the line A and B exist on > after the lightning strikes. > > This is what the embankment and train look like after the lightning > strikes. The arrows indicate the train moving away from the embankment > as viewed from the embankment frame of reference: > > A'----M'----B' > ^ ^ ^ > | | | > | | | > A-----M-----B > > If the light from A and B reaches M simultaneously, the light from A' > and B' reaches M' simultaneously because A/A' was a single lightning > strike and B/B' was a single lightning strike and A and M, B and M, A' > and M', and B' and M' are equi-distant. But this requires the light to > travel from four locations to each Observer. It is either that or the > light travels from A and B to M and M', making the embankment the > preferred frame or the light travels from A' and B' to M and M', > making the train the preferred frame. > > I don't think this can be resolved in Relativity of Simultaneity. If the Observer at M' concludes the light traveled from A' and B' to where M' is and the light traveled from A' and B' to the Observer at M, and the Observer at M concludes the light traveled from A and B to where M is and the light traveled from A and B to the Observer at M'. This means the Observer at M' will see the light from the lightning strike at A' and B' and then see the light from the lightning strike at A and B and the Observer at M will see the light from the lightning strike at A and B and the see the light from the lightning strike at A' and B'. This is physically impossible since there is a single lightning strike at A/A' and a single lightning strike at B/B'. I still think this is unresolvable by Relativity of Simultaneity.
From: mpc755 on 1 Nov 2009 22:52
On Nov 1, 10:13 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Nov 1, 7:32 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Oct 8, 11:49 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > If the aether is stationary relative to the embankment and stationary > > > relative to the train, this is what will occur in Einstein's train > > > thought experiment: > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWTaXMElUk > > > Einstein says in order for the propagation of light to exist there > > must be aether. Einstein also says the idea of motion may not be > > applied to aether. > > > I conclude this means aether must be at rest relative to the > > embankment and at rest relative to the train which is physically > > impossible if the embankment frame of reference and the train frame of > > reference occupy the same three dimensional space. > > mpc755 train thought experiment. > > The train is moving perpendicular to the line A and B exist on. > The train is wide enough that A' and B' exist on opposite sides of the > aisle. > > Here is an image of the train and the embankment and the corresponding > locations prior to the lightning strikes. The arrows represent the > train moving towards the embankment as viewed from the embankment > frame of reference: > > A-----M-----B > ^ ^ ^ > | | | > | | | > A'----M'----B' > > When the lightning strike occurs at A/A', A and A' exist at the same > point in three dimensional space. When the lightning strike occurs at > B/B', B and B' exist at the same point in three dimensional space. > > The train continues to move perpendicular to the line A and B exist on > after the lightning strikes. > > This is what the embankment and train look like after the lightning > strikes. The arrows indicate the train moving away from the embankment > as viewed from the embankment frame of reference: > > A'----M'----B' > ^ ^ ^ > | | | > | | | > A-----M-----B > > If the light from A and B reaches M simultaneously, the light from A' > and B' reaches M' simultaneously because A/A' was a single lightning > strike and B/B' was a single lightning strike and A and M, B and M, A' > and M', and B' and M' are equi-distant. But this requires the light to > travel from four locations to each Observer. It is either that or the > light travels from A and B to M and M', making the embankment the > preferred frame or the light travels from A' and B' to M and M', > making the train the preferred frame. > > I don't think this can be resolved in Relativity of Simultaneity. The Observer at M on the embankment could insist the light from A and B reached M and then the light from A and B reached the Observer at M', and the Observer at M' on the train could insist the light from A' and B' reached M' and then the light from A' and B' reached the Observer at M, but the only way for the light to reach each observer first is for the light to reach each Observer simultaneously, which is not possible as the thought experiment is configured in Relativity of Simultaneity. |