Simultaneity of Relativity
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From: mpc755 on 13 Nov 2009 08:59 On Nov 12, 1:52 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Nov 11, 6:05 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Nov 10, 8:44 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > What happens in SR when the Observer on the train pushes the Observer > > > on the embankment out of the way and sees the light from B? Since the > > > light from B has now traveled 0.1 light years to the Observer at C' on > > > the train, is the image of the I bar larger in the image seen by the > > > Observer at C'? > > > > In SR, if the Observer on the train keeps one camera in the train and > > > sticks the other camera in front of the Observer at M do the cameras > > > capture two different images of the I bar? Since the idea of motion > > > cannot be applied to the space/aether and since the train and > > > embankment share the same three dimensional space, what physically > > > changes which allows the image to be seen as having traveled two > > > different distance to the camera the Observer at C' holds on the train > > > and the camera the Observer at C' holds in an outstretched arm in > > > front of the Observer at M? Or, is the image the same size as captured > > > by any camera the Observer at C' holds? In SR, the light waves that > > > were traveling from B and about to reach the Observer at M change and > > > now have traveled from B'? > > > > In AD, the light from the lightning strike travels at 'c' relative to > > > the aether and if the Observer at C' and the Observer at M are as > > > close as possible to one another when the light from the lightning > > > strike at B/B' reaches them, then the light has traveled the same > > > distance to each of them because it is a single light wave traveling a > > > single path through the aether in the present. > > > There is a problem in my thought experiment which I need to fix. At > > the time of the lightning strikes, C' is one light year from B/B' and > > M is 2/3rds of a light year from B/B'. C' is traveling at 1/2 the > > speed of light relative to the embankment. Here is the thought > > experiment setup: > > > C'-----------------------------------B'--------> > > ----------M--------------------------B--------- > > > When the light from the lightning strike at B/B' reaches the Observers > > at M/C': > > > ----------C'-----------------------------------B'--------> > > ----------M--------------------------B--------- > > > In SR, the light has traveled from B' to C' and the light has traveled > > from B to M. If at this point, the Observer at C' sticks an arm out > > and puts a camera directly in front of M, where have the light waves > > traveled from to the camera, and why? > > > In AD, both Observers see the same image because there is a single > > lighting strike event at B/B' and C' and M are as close to each other > > as possible in three dimensional space when the light wave reaches > > them. The light wave is propagating outward at 'c' relative to the > > aether in the present. > > In AD, since the light from the lightning strike at B/B' is a single > event, the light wave propagates outward through three dimensional > space at 'c' relative to the aether in the present to all Observers. You are walking across a bridge. On the other side of the bridge someone else is walking along at the same exact pace you are. You are both in the same frame of reference. The water moving under the bridge enters under your side of the bridge and exits out the other side of the bridge where the other walker is. You have an arm outstretched and drop a pebble off the side of the bridge. You keep your arm outstretched. The pebble hits the water and creates a ripple which travels away from where the pebble hit the water at the same speed in all directions relative to the water. You both continue to walk across the bridge as the ripple expands in the water as the point where the pebble entered the water also moves with the water. Eventually, the wave is directly under the person walking on the other side of the bridge. Where do you say the wave traveled from to the person on the other side of the bridge? Do you say the wave traveled a straight line from your outstretched hand to the other person, or do you say the wave rippled outward at the same speed in all directions relative to the water and the wave traveled from where the pebble was dropped into water and the point where the pebble was dropped into the water has moved with the water and traveled from that point to the person on the other side of the bridge? Do you insist the wave the pebble made in the water traveled a straight line from your outstretched hand to the other person in your frame of reference or do you say the wave rippled outward in all directions at the same speed from where the pebble entered the water relative to the water?
From: mpc755 on 13 Nov 2009 09:16 On Nov 12, 1:52 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Nov 11, 6:05 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Nov 10, 8:44 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > What happens in SR when the Observer on the train pushes the Observer > > > on the embankment out of the way and sees the light from B? Since the > > > light from B has now traveled 0.1 light years to the Observer at C' on > > > the train, is the image of the I bar larger in the image seen by the > > > Observer at C'? > > > > In SR, if the Observer on the train keeps one camera in the train and > > > sticks the other camera in front of the Observer at M do the cameras > > > capture two different images of the I bar? Since the idea of motion > > > cannot be applied to the space/aether and since the train and > > > embankment share the same three dimensional space, what physically > > > changes which allows the image to be seen as having traveled two > > > different distance to the camera the Observer at C' holds on the train > > > and the camera the Observer at C' holds in an outstretched arm in > > > front of the Observer at M? Or, is the image the same size as captured > > > by any camera the Observer at C' holds? In SR, the light waves that > > > were traveling from B and about to reach the Observer at M change and > > > now have traveled from B'? > > > > In AD, the light from the lightning strike travels at 'c' relative to > > > the aether and if the Observer at C' and the Observer at M are as > > > close as possible to one another when the light from the lightning > > > strike at B/B' reaches them, then the light has traveled the same > > > distance to each of them because it is a single light wave traveling a > > > single path through the aether in the present. > > > There is a problem in my thought experiment which I need to fix. At > > the time of the lightning strikes, C' is one light year from B/B' and > > M is 2/3rds of a light year from B/B'. C' is traveling at 1/2 the > > speed of light relative to the embankment. Here is the thought > > experiment setup: > > > C'-----------------------------------B'--------> > > ----------M--------------------------B--------- > > > When the light from the lightning strike at B/B' reaches the Observers > > at M/C': > > > ----------C'-----------------------------------B'--------> > > ----------M--------------------------B--------- > > > In SR, the light has traveled from B' to C' and the light has traveled > > from B to M. If at this point, the Observer at C' sticks an arm out > > and puts a camera directly in front of M, where have the light waves > > traveled from to the camera, and why? > > > In AD, both Observers see the same image because there is a single > > lighting strike event at B/B' and C' and M are as close to each other > > as possible in three dimensional space when the light wave reaches > > them. The light wave is propagating outward at 'c' relative to the > > aether in the present. > > In AD, since the light from the lightning strike at B/B' is a single > event, the light wave propagates outward through three dimensional > space at 'c' relative to the aether in the present to all Observers. You are walking across a bridge. On the other side of the bridge someone else is walking along at the same exact pace you are. You are both in the same frame of reference. The water moving under the bridge enters under your side of the bridge and exits out the other side of the bridge where the other walker is. You have an arm outstretched and drop a pebble off the side of the bridge. You keep your arm outstretched. The pebble hits the water and creates a ripple which travels away from where the pebble hit the water at the same speed in all directions relative to the water. You both continue to walk across the bridge as the ripple expands in the water as the point where the pebble entered the water also moves with the water. Eventually, the wave is directly under the person walking on the other side of the bridge. Where do you say the wave traveled from to the person on the other side of the bridge? Do you say the wave traveled a straight line from your outstretched hand to the other person, or do you say the wave rippled outward at the same speed in all directions relative to the water and the wave traveled from where the pebble was dropped into the water and the point where the pebble was dropped into the water has moved with the water and traveled from that point to the person on the other side of the bridge? Do you insist the wave the pebble made in the water traveled a straight line from your outstretched hand to the other person in your frame of reference or do you say the wave rippled outward from where the pebble entered the water at the same speed in all directions relative to the water?
From: BURT on 13 Nov 2009 21:47 - Such cheesy baiting. Say cheese. Mitch Raemsch
From: mpc755 on 13 Nov 2009 23:52
On Nov 13, 9:47 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > - Such cheesy baiting. > > Say cheese. > > Mitch Raemsch We're playing made you look? |