Speed of Light: A universal Constant?
in [Relativity]
|
Prev: Joan-Claude van Dirk Helps to Trivialize Special Relativity
Next: GOD=G_uv Measure your IQ in 30 seconds
From: sue jahn on 1 Jul 2005 17:35 "bz" <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote in message news:Xns96869A3D94A8AWQAHBGMXSZHVspammote(a)130.39.198.139... > "sue jahn" <susysewnshow(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote in > news:42c59480$0$18640$14726298(a)news.sunsite.dk: > > > > > "bz" <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote in message > > news:Xns968681AC41F32WQAHBGMXSZHVspammote(a)130.39.198.139... > >> "Sue..." <suzysewnshow(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote in > >> news:1120234662.207964.48120(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > >> > >> >> > >> >> Do it in a vacuum chamber to avoid extinction. > >> >> > >> >> http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/LIGO_web/200002news/200002han.html > >> > > >> > You have of course calculated the Ewald-Oseen Extinction distance > >> > for such a chamber ??? > >> > > >> > http://www.ece.eps.hw.ac.uk/~amc/em3/waveguide2/waveguide2_2.html > >> > >> The propagation mode it TE_oo, so we don't need to worry. > >> > >> > http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Ewald-OseenExtinctionTheorem.h > >> > tml > >> > >> That one depends on the dyelectric used. > >> We are using red dye 2, so as long as we don't drink it, we are ok. > > > You are filling the chamber with dye and pretending it is a vacuum ? > > That depends on the dyelectric constant. > > With the right dye, if you pump the chamber with a nitrogen laser, you can > reduce the attenuation below zero. This seems reasonable and has perhaps been observed for atmospheric paths. Does bigger equal faster in this business ? > > > > << In a completely hollow guide waves with both and parallel to the > > axis of the guide are impossible. But with a conductor along the axis > > these waves are possible. Their dispersion relation is simply >> > > http://maxwell.byu.edu/~spencerr/phys442/node6.html > > > > The TE10 mode is the dominant mode of a rectangular waveguide > > with a>b, since it has the lowest attenuation of all modes. > > Either m or n can be zero, but not both. > > http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/waveguide.htm > > When I send my laser beam down the S-band wave guide, I can't tell if I > have TE or TM mode propagation. In fact, I get the same results on my x- > band wave guide. > > Any idea why? The waveguide can't tell either so before too long you are wishing it was a single wire or glass fiber. << Waveguides are generally used in a frequency range where only the lowest mode, or exceptionally the lowest few modes, will propagate. If one wants to launch a mode in a guide which supports more than one propagating mode, one drives it with probes or loops which have a symmetry that does not excite any of the other (unwanted) modes. >> http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/D.Jefferies/wguide.html http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~ee428/manual/html/node9.html You and Henri have about conviced me 1- that double stars must be lasers ...with columating lenses no less. (still a gaussian intensity profile) 2-The path between earth and the double-stars is dye or nitrogen. 3- Sometimes the dye or nitrogen moves toward the earth ? What if we put a big dog behind every postal worker? Wouldn't that work better ? :o) Sue... > > >> > >> The Henri extinction distance is the one we gotta worry about. That is > >> usually n-1 where n is the current instrument size. > > > > IMHO Henri is subscribing to the logic that a slow postal service > > can be improved by disbanding the slow postal service. ;-) > > Well, if the BaT theory worked, we could throw postmen at the letters to > speed things up. :) > > > > > -- > bz > > please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an > infinite set. > > bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap
From: sue jahn on 1 Jul 2005 17:40 "Arthur Dent" <jp006t2227(a)blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:1120252552.551992.37000(a)o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > 377 ohms? > Dorothy said there's no place like ohm, and she went all the way from > Kansas to Oz. In a tornado, what? > Mebbe tornado alley leads to Australia, but I prefer Diagon Alley, > there's no yellow brick roads there. > AD. > Eh I know you're new here so it's not your fault but somebody should've warned ya: Don't stump Dinky VDM or he pees all over himself and every thing else. ;-) Sue...
From: Arthur Dent on 1 Jul 2005 18:24 sue jahn wrote: > "Arthur Dent" <jp006t2227(a)blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:1120252552.551992.37000(a)o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > > 377 ohms? > > Dorothy said there's no place like ohm, and she went all the way from > > Kansas to Oz. In a tornado, what? > > Mebbe tornado alley leads to Australia, but I prefer Diagon Alley, > > there's no yellow brick roads there. > > AD. > > > > Eh I know you're new here so it's not your fault but somebody > should've warned ya: > > Don't stump Dinky VDM or he pees all over himself and every > thing else. ;-) > > Sue... Yes, I noticed the little dog is annoyed:-) Spoilt as a puppy and never grew up, I guess, and all I did was tickle his tummy. AD.
From: bz on 1 Jul 2005 18:33 "sue jahn" <susysewnshow(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote in news:42c5b736$0$18637 $14726298(a)news.sunsite.dk: >> With the right dye, if you pump the chamber with a nitrogen laser, you >> can reduce the attenuation below zero. > This seems reasonable and has perhaps been observed for atmospheric > paths. Does bigger equal faster in this business ? Maybe. Perhaps the size of the can does matter. >> > << In a completely hollow guide waves with both and parallel to the >> > axis of the guide are impossible. But with a conductor along the axis >> > these waves are possible. Their dispersion relation is simply >> >> > http://maxwell.byu.edu/~spencerr/phys442/node6.html >> > >> > The TE10 mode is the dominant mode of a rectangular waveguide >> > with a>b, since it has the lowest attenuation of all modes. >> > Either m or n can be zero, but not both. >> > http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/waveguide.htm >> >> When I send my laser beam down the S-band wave guide, I can't tell if I >> have TE or TM mode propagation. In fact, I get the same results on my x- >> band wave guide. >> >> Any idea why? > The waveguide can't tell either so before too long you are wishing it > was a single wire or glass fiber. > > << Waveguides are generally used in a frequency range where > only the lowest mode, or exceptionally the lowest few modes, will > propagate. If one wants to launch a mode in a guide which supports > more than one propagating mode, one drives it with probes or loops I tried a fiber but my loupe must be too large. The lense won't fit into the fiber. Nobody node the troubles I 'c'. > which have a symmetry that does not excite any of the other (unwanted) > modes. >> > http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/D.Jefferies/wguide.html > > http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~ee428/manual/html/node9.html > > You and Henri have about conviced me > 1- that double stars must be lasers ...with columating lenses > no less. I think you must be right Sue. They should be called the Sue-laze-stars. >(still a gaussian intensity profile) dontch know it HAS to be lawrencian? > 2-The path between earth and the double-stars is dye or nitrogen. I'm dy'n to find out. > 3- Sometimes the dye or nitrogen moves toward the earth ? So that's why they call it dye-namics? > What if we put a big dog behind every postal worker? > Wouldn't that work better ? :o) That might be ruff on the uniforms. :) -- bz please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap
From: Henri Wilson on 1 Jul 2005 18:45
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 15:34:21 +0000 (UTC), bz <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote: >H@..(Henri Wilson) wrote in >news:2st9c1h5qs4fi28oeqafls5t4pc0bqqjko(a)4ax.com: > >> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:25:49 +0000 (UTC), bz >> <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote: >> >>>H@..(Henri Wilson) wrote in >>>news:s7e7c1pu2p6dhipa07l6upr7oru6msuoft(a)4ax.com: >>> >> >>>> Nah! >>>> Below the critical distance no light overtakes any other. >>>> Light from certain parts of the orbit bunches together. Light from >>>> other parts becomes more dispersed. >>> >>>Then Algol can not be used as an example of a c' variable as it is a >>>spectroscopic binary. >> >> Stars that are regarded as eclipsing binaries may not be. > >Of course not. Of course, you must then explain the spectroscopic data, the >doppler shift data as well as the photometric data. All are consistent with >an eclipsing binary. > >> The same curve is produced by the BaT, using only one star. >> As I pointed out elsewhere, the companion star can eiethr be 'cool0 or >> its velocity may be such that it is well away from the distances >> required to affects its brightnes curve. > >All data must be consistent. Stellar type is inconsistent with BaT. > >>>>>These photons will have different doppler shifts. >>>>>They will be arriving at the same time. >>>>>This will broaden the lines. >>>> >>>> No you are wrong on that one Bob. Run the 'wavefront' section of my >>>> now improved program and you will see. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> One must also remember that all the stars we are considering are in >>>>>> orbit around something else and that something may or may not be >>>>>> cool and dark. So two distinct doppler patterns may be observed. >>>>>> That is the case for the star HD 81075 that Andersen keeps harping >>>>>> on. It is a binary pair of roughly equal size and in near circular >>>>>> orbit. >>>>> >>>>>If the 2nd body is cool & dark, there should NOT be signs of >>>>>spectroscopic binarys. No doubling of spectral lines. Cepheid don't >>>>>usually show doubling of spectral lines. Of course cepheids may also >>>>>be part of a spectroscopic or even optical binary system. In those >>>>>cases you should see double lines. >>>>> >>>>>Of course, if the stars are different types, you will see the lines >>>>>characteristic of each type of star, showing doppler shift, but not >>>>>doubling, unless the lines represent lines found in both types of >>>>>star. >>>> >>>> My theory is that most variables stars are either rotating around dark >>>> partners OR the partner is of such different size that its velocity is >>>> very different and it is way below the critical distance to the >>>> observer. >>>> >>>> The two members of a binary pair don't share the same critical >>>> distance. >>> >>>You need to develope a 'critical distance' formula, so that the term can >>>be rigorously defined. >>> >>>Is this correct: beyond the critical distance, a star no longer displays >>>the effects of BaT? >> >> beyond the CD, multiple images can be expected. > >But you have cited critical distance as a reason to NOT to see variation in >brightness, haven't you. No. Atb the critical distance, the first 'infinite' brightness peak is expected. Beyond that, multiple images will be seen. Each star has its own critical distance and, particulalry for elliptical orbits, that is direction dependent. >>>Or is this correct: below the critical distance, BaT effects can not be >>>observed? >> >> The critical distance is very dependent on radial velocity. Many stars >> are just too close to exhibit much variation. > >They MUST be close for short variable cycles. You can't get wide separation >and rapid orbiting without velocities that are inconsistent with the >observed doppler shifts. No, the radial velocities are consistent with doppler shifts. They have to be. That is how they are measured. > >> In the case of a pair >> whose masses are very different, the velocity of the larger one might be >> only a fraction of that of the smaller. So one star might show >> considerable variation in brightness while the other appears almost >> stable. the spectrum would still show the opposite doppler shifts of >> both. > >But it will show the velocities of each. Those must be consistent with the >orbital periods. In a two body system, the periods must be equal. The more >massive object must move slower and in a smaller orbit That's right. ...and consequently its brightness variation will be quite different. It doppler shift should be observable.. and 180 out wrt the other. >>>I wonder how many BaT enthusiasts there are in the world? >>>If there are 1000 and we can get each to kick in 500 bucks, we can do >>>it. We rent the equipment for 30 days and run the experiment. >> >> But it would have to be done on a couple of high mountains. Atmospheric >> effects would drown the time differences you are looking for. > >Do it in a vacuum chamber to avoid extinction. > >http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/LIGO_web/200002news/200002han.html Very interesting. I often wondered if light could build up intensity in a reflection system like that. Maybe they will lend you the cavity. Maybe you can get them to perform your experiment. However a null result would suggest that the apparatus tube constituted soem kind of EM reference frame. >>>>>> It's just not on....even today. >>>>>We can get much higher than 134 mph. >>>> >>>> Sorry I was a factor of ten out there. 0.000002c. >>>> >>>> That involves spinning a one metre circumference (1ft diam) wheel at >>>> about 300 rps) or 18000 rpm. >>> >>>1 metre is 3.281 feet. :) >> >> You didn't read properly. Overworked today, maybe.... > >right. > >> I said 'metre circumference'. >> That is about 1 foot diameter. > >very close. 1.044. interesting coincidence. Maybe the French deliberately arranged that...but got pi wrong. > >>>I would rather spin a smaller wheel at a higher speed. We get more >>>pulses. And the technology is already there in the laboratory ultra >>>centrifuge. >>> >>>Regardless, it is possible to do. >> >> One foot diameter. > >ok. > >>>> So the time differences you want to resolve are around E-10. >>>> Maintaining a constant distance might be the biggest problem. >>>> >>> >>>We can measure the distance with another laser beam from a stationary >>>source right next to the rotating source [and securely mounted to the >>>same baseplate that the spinning source is mounted on.] >> >> Best if you can use the same source and a couple of mirrors, one moving >> and the other not....then you can be certain that the emission times are >> within the required tolerance. > >I was going to use use cw laser for the moving source. >I was going to time with two detectors. I am REALLY measuring time of >flight but don't care about exact time since I will be comparing times as >the rotation speed is varied. Yes you only have to compare times....but you must make sure they are emited at the same time and place....you only have fractions of centimeters to play with. HW. www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm Sometimes I feel like a complete failure. The most useful thing I have ever done is prove Einstein wrong. |