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From: bz on 4 Jul 2005 20:04 H@..(Henri Wilson) wrote in news:i4fjc1td10jgihtdv155ffl8357s205nqu(a)4ax.com: > On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:47:01 +0000 (UTC), bz <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> > wrote: > >>H@..(Henri Wilson) wrote in >>news:c0tgc19ghnbb1faca2k8sievsdkotirheg(a)4ax.com: >> >>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 15:29:57 +0000 (UTC), bz >>> <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote: >>> >>>>H@..(Henri Wilson) wrote in >>>>news:60kfc15io30g10ithf841u3f0u1brf0mru(a)4ax.com: >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>If the data is honestly handled, the estimated error will be >>>>>>included. Failure to include the error statistics leads some to >>>>>>believe, wrongly, that the period is exact. We can't honestly say >>>>>>that. >>>>> >>>>> Bob, there are hundreds of published brightness curves from all >>>>> kinds of stars, including 'cepheids'. They all have one thing in >>>>> common. Their periods show very little variation over many years. >>>> >>>>Henri, those curves represent a fit to a bunch of data points. >>>>Unless the datapoints are shown and the error is stated, it is >>>>misleading to show the curve. "very little variation over many years" >>>>is a relative term and you have placed too much faith in it. >>> >>> Bob, if hundreds of 'best fit' graphs show constancy and we know that >>> considerable uncertainty always exists in the measurement process, why >>> would anyone want to conclude that each graph was anything BUT >>> constant. Your approach flies in the face of all statistical >>> principles. >> >>That really sounds good Henri. "Your approach flies in the face of all >>statistical principles". But it applies better to your approach and to >>the approach of those that publish such curves without some reference >>that shows just how accurate the curve really is. >> >>Show me data, real data, that supports the statement that cepheid show >>"very little variation over many years". Show me data from any cepheid >>that supports the idea that 'very little variation' is 'within seconds'. >> >>Jerry has shown you articles. They give error figures. The figures are >>the kinds of figures I would expect to see from stars that vary due to >>internal processes. >> >>It would be interesting to compare the errors for cepheids with the >>errors for spectroscopic binaries. > > I am not surprised that you two will go down fighting. > the fact is, quote, "cepheid periods are so constant one can used them > as a clock". Hour glasses are used as clocks. Sundials are used as clocks. The positions of the moons of jupiter are used as clocks (and were accurate enough for sailers to use to find their longitude). I don't suggest you throw away your wristwatch and start using a cepheid. It won't fit in your pocket and it won't keep very good time. >>>>>>> Mainly, but it depends on the large orbit and the speed around >>>>>>> that orbit. ('large orbit' refers to the orbit around which the >>>>>>> binary barycentre is moving. Small orbit is that of a member of >>>>>>> the binary pair around the barycentre.) >>>>>> >>>>>>The barycenter for a binary star system does not move[except around >>>>>>the barycenter of its star cluster/galaxy], or are you talking about >>>>>>a trinary system? >>>>> >>>>> Nothing sits still in the universe. If it isn't in orbit it will >>>>> soon collide with something. >>>>> Binary pairs are themselves orbiting galactic centres and maybe >>>>> other very large objects. >>>> >>>>You still have failed to make clear WHAT your 'large orbit' barycenter >>>>is moving around. What are you talking about? >>> >>> A galactic centre maybe... ...period 1-5000 years maybe. >>> Some galaxies are much smaller than others...but you probably know >>> that >>> :) >> >>So, how does this 'large orbit' around the galactic center have anything >>to do with time compression. > > The amount of information reaching a distant observer per unit time will > depend on the position of the small barycentre around the large orbit. > Information is compressed, rather than TIME. > > You will have to run my program to get a better understanding. Go to > 'start page' and then 'time compression'. That is not an explanation of why the orbital speed around the galactic center would have anything to do with time or information compression. It might have something to do with distance for earth. It might have something to do with relative velocity wrt earth but saying it depends on something you have decided to call the 'large orbit' of the barycentre makes no sense. Show me the math that allows you to justify such an idea. >>> Well, I have now shown why the 'GR correction' in GPS clocks is a >>> complete nonsense. >> >>How does LET's or SR/GR/EEP establishment that light moves at c wrt >>everything, how does that show the GR correction in GPS clocks as >>complete nonsense? > > Read my thread 'GPS GR CORRECTION MYTH' I read it. No one there is supporting your claims. Here is my comment: you said: > Conclusion: The clock rate has obviously changed ""physically"" due to > experiencing lots of g's and being placed in free fall orbit where it > cuts through the Earths' fields.. > > The proclaimed 'GR correction' is plain nonsense. > The clocks were almost certainly tested before launch in centrifuges in order to makes sure they could withstand the launch forces. In fact I would predict that during the testing, while the clocks were undergoing high G forces, I would be willing to bet that the clocks ran slower and once the centrifuge stopped, the clock rate went back to 'normal' for the rate at the G force then experienced. There is absolutely no chance that physical damage to that many different satellites would cause them all to require the same correction. >> >>.... >>>> >>>>Any scientist observing wave motion in water quickly determines what >>>>is moving and what isn't. >>> >>> Water waves are very interesting. >>>> >>>>And, we were talking about light. >>> >>> Another transverse wave. >> >>Probably right. > > I am 100% right > >> >>>>It has been established by experiment to consist of packets of energy >>>>that have wavelength, frequency, energy, moves at c in a vacuum wrt >>>>all possible inertial FoRs, as far as we know from currently available >>>>data. >>> >>> Stop dreaming Bob. >> >>Show me contrary data. Show me sub/superluminal photons. > > OK, I'll post some over..... -- bz please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap
From: Jerry on 4 Jul 2005 21:11 Henri Wilson wrote: > On 4 Jul 2005 16:22:37 -0700, "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote: > http://weblore.com/richard/ru_cam_ex_cepheid_star.htm > "Cepheids are known for their precise variability which can be measured to a > fraction of a second." > > http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/deltacep.html > "Delta Cep is one of the few easily-visible variables, its magnitude changing > from 3.5 to 4.3 and back over an amazingly regular period of 5 days 8 hours 47 > minutes and 32 seconds, the star acting like a natural clock. " Turner, JAAVSO Volume 26, 1998 101 MONITORING THE EVOLUTION OF CEPHEID VARIABLES David G. Turner Saint Mary's University Halifax, Nova Scotia B3H 3C3 Canada Presented at the Annual Meeting of the AAVSO, October 25, 1997 Abstract Described here are preliminary results of a pilot project to monitor changes in the ephemerides of northern hemisphere Cepheids using an SBIG camera attached to the 0.4-m telescope of the campus observatory at Saint Mary's University. Epochs of maximum light for fifteen Cepheids have been derived using published light curves for each variable as templates, and the results are being used to update the O-C ephemerides for the program stars. Results for BB Her are presented here. Period changes for Cepheid variables are demonstrated to be an excellent means of pinpointing their evolutionary status, as well as for investigating other peculiarities of the class. http://www.aavso.org/publications/journal/v26n2/turner.pdf VLTI watches the pulsation of four southern Cepheids -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to the very high spatial resolution of the VLTI interferometer, a team of french astronomers led by Pierre Kervella from Paris Observatory, has measured directly the change of size of four Cepheids, during their pulsation cycle. The mean size of three other stars was also measured. By combining these observations with spectroscopic measurements of radial velocity, it was then possible to measure precisely the distances in a quasi-geometrical way, and thus to calibrate the zero point of the empirical Period-Luminosity relation of Cepheids. These observations are an important sterp forwards an independent verification of the extragalactic distance scale by interferometry. http://www.obspm.fr/actual/nouvelle/oct04/cep.en.shtml Title: Polaris: Amplitude, Period Change, and Companions Authors: Evans, Nancy Remage; Sasselov, Dimitar D.; Short, C. Ian Affiliation: AA(Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138), AB(Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138), AC(Florida Atlantic University, Physics Department, 777 Glades Road, Boca Raton, FL 33431-0991) Journal: The Astrophysical Journal, Volume 567, Issue 2, pp. 1121-1130. (ApJ Homepage) Publication Date: 03/2002 Origin: UCP ApJ Keywords: Stars: Binaries: Visual, Stars: Variables: Cepheids, Stars: Atmospheres, stars: individual (Polaris, alpha Ursae Minoris), Stars: Oscillations Abstract Copyright: (c) 2002: The American Astronomical Society DOI: 10.1086/338583 Bibliographic Code: 2002ApJ...567.1121E Abstract Polaris has presented us with the rare phenomenon of a Cepheid with a pulsation amplitude that has decreased over the last 50 yr. In this study we have used this property to see whether the amplitude decrease during the last 15 yr has had any effect on upper atmosphere heating. We obtained IUE high- and low-resolution spectra but found no change in either the Mg II chromospheric emission or the flux at 1800 Å between 1978 and 1993 when the pulsation amplitude dropped by 50% (from 2.8 to 1.6 km s-1). The energy distribution from 1700 Å through V, B, R(KC), and I(KC) is like that of a nonvariable supergiant of the same color rather than a full amplitude Cepheid in that it has more flux at 1800 Å than the full amplitude Cepheid delta Cep. Polaris also has a rapidly changing period (3.2 s yr-1), in common with other overtone pulsators. We argue that this is a natural consequence of the different envelope locations that dominate pulsation growth rates in fundamental and overtone pulsation. In fundamental mode pulsators, the deeper envelope is more important in determining growth rates than for overtone pulsators. For fundamental mode pulsators, evolutionary changes in the radius produce approximately linear changes in period. In overtone pulsators, pulsation reacts to small evolutionary changes in a more unstable way because the modes are more sensitive to high envelope features such as opacity bumps, and the growth rates for the many closely spaced overtone modes change easily. Finally, the upper limit to the X-ray flux from an Einstein observation implies that the companion in the astrometric orbit is earlier than F4 V. The combination of upper and lower limits on the companion from IUE and Einstein respectively catch the companion mass between 1.7 and 1.4 Msolar. The X-ray limit is consistent with the more distant companion alpha UMi B being a physical companion in a hierarchal triple system. However the X-ray limits require that the even more distant companions alpha UMi C and D are too old to be physically associated with Polaris. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2002ApJ...567.1121E&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= Title: Study of period changes for 38 RR Lyrae variables in the globular cluster M15 Authors: Smith, H. A.; Sandage, A. Affiliation: AA(Mount Wilson and Las Campanas Observatories, Pasadena, CA), AB(Mount Wilson and Las Campanas Observatories, Pasadena, CA) Journal: Astronomical Journal, vol. 86, Dec. 1981, p. 1870-1881. (AJ Homepage) Publication Date: 12/1981 Category: Astronomy Origin: STI NASA/STI Keywords: CEPHEID VARIABLES, GLOBULAR CLUSTERS, PERIODIC VARIATIONS, STAR CLUSTERS, STELLAR EVOLUTION, COLOR-MAGNITUDE DIAGRAM, HERTZSPRUNG-RUSSELL DIAGRAM, STELLAR LUMINOSITY, STELLAR OSCILLATIONS DOI: 10.1086/113066 Bibliographic Code: 1981AJ.....86.1870S Abstract Of the 38 M15 RR Lyrae stars investigated, 19 have probably undergone period changes between 1896 and 1978 of both abrupt and gradual character. Five times as many stars are believed to have increased in period as decreased, and period changes show no correlation with position in the color-magnitude diagram, contrary to evolutionary expectation. The ab-types variables tend to have larger changes than the c types, but the difference in the mean rate of period change for a band c-type variables is found to be too small to be significant. It is suggested that observations of the M15 variables over the next century may clarify the possibility of evolutionary period change detection, despite short-period noise due to erratic changes in the stellar radius. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=1981AJ.....86.1870S&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= Title: Period changes of Cepheid variables. I - Secular period changes Authors: Szabados, L. Affiliation: AA(Konkoly Obszervatorium, Budapest, Hungary) Journal: Astrophysics and Space Science (ISSN 0004-640X), vol. 96, no. 1, Oct. 1983, p. 185-194. Research supported by the Magyar Tudomanyos Akademia. (Ap&SS Homepage) Publication Date: 10/1983 Category: Astrophysics Origin: STI NASA/STI Keywords: CEPHEID VARIABLES, SECULAR VARIATIONS, STELLAR EVOLUTION, STELLAR OSCILLATIONS, HERTZSPRUNG-RUSSELL DIAGRAM, LIGHT CURVE Bibliographic Code: 1983Ap&SS..96..185S Abstract Secular period changes of one hundred northern Cepheids are investigated with the help of O-C diagrams. With the classical Cepheids the rate of observed period changes is in good agreement with that determined from stellar evolution theory. The period noise cannot mask the evolutionary period changes especially in longer period Cepheids for which the occurrence of parabolic O-C graphs is unusually frequent. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=1983Ap%26SS..96..185S&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= Jerry
From: Henri Wilson on 5 Jul 2005 04:23 On 4 Jul 2005 18:11:43 -0700, "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote: >Henri Wilson wrote: >> On 4 Jul 2005 16:22:37 -0700, "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> http://weblore.com/richard/ru_cam_ex_cepheid_star.htm >> "Cepheids are known for their precise variability which can be measured to a >> fraction of a second." >> >> http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/deltacep.html >> "Delta Cep is one of the few easily-visible variables, its magnitude changing >> from 3.5 to 4.3 and back over an amazingly regular period of 5 days 8 hours 47 >> minutes and 32 seconds, the star acting like a natural clock. " > >Turner, JAAVSO Volume 26, 1998 101 >MONITORING THE EVOLUTION OF CEPHEID VARIABLES >David G. Turner >Saint Mary's University >Halifax, Nova Scotia B3H 3C3 >Canada >Presented at the Annual Meeting of the AAVSO, October 25, 1997 >Abstract >Described here are preliminary results of a pilot project to monitor >changes >in the ephemerides of northern hemisphere Cepheids using an SBIG camera >attached to the 0.4-m telescope of the campus observatory at Saint >Mary's >University. Epochs of maximum light for fifteen Cepheids have been >derived using published light curves for each variable as templates, >and the >results are being used to update the O-C ephemerides for the program >stars. >Results for BB Her are presented here. Period changes for Cepheid >variables >are demonstrated to be an excellent means of pinpointing their >evolutionary >status, as well as for investigating other peculiarities of the class. >http://www.aavso.org/publications/journal/v26n2/turner.pdf > > > >VLTI watches the pulsation of four southern Cepheids >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Thanks to the very high spatial resolution of the VLTI interferometer, >a team of french astronomers led by Pierre Kervella from Paris >Observatory, has measured directly the change of size of four Cepheids, >during their pulsation cycle. The mean size of three other stars was >also measured. By combining these observations with spectroscopic >measurements of radial velocity, it was then possible to measure >precisely the distances in a quasi-geometrical way, and thus to >calibrate the zero point of the empirical Period-Luminosity relation of >Cepheids. These observations are an important sterp forwards an >independent verification of the extragalactic distance scale by >interferometry. >http://www.obspm.fr/actual/nouvelle/oct04/cep.en.shtml > You are getting desperate Nothing here conflicts with the BaT > >Title: > Polaris: Amplitude, Period Change, and Companions >Authors: > Evans, Nancy Remage; Sasselov, Dimitar D.; Short, C. Ian >Affiliation: > AA(Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, >MA 02138), AB(Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, 60 Garden >Street, Cambridge, MA 02138), AC(Florida Atlantic University, Physics >Department, 777 Glades Road, Boca Raton, FL 33431-0991) >Journal: > The Astrophysical Journal, Volume 567, Issue 2, pp. 1121-1130. (ApJ >Homepage) >Publication Date: > 03/2002 >Origin: > UCP >ApJ Keywords: > Stars: Binaries: Visual, Stars: Variables: Cepheids, Stars: >Atmospheres, stars: individual (Polaris, alpha Ursae Minoris), Stars: >Oscillations >Abstract Copyright: > (c) 2002: The American Astronomical Society >DOI: > 10.1086/338583 >Bibliographic Code: > 2002ApJ...567.1121E > >Abstract >Polaris has presented us with the rare phenomenon of a Cepheid with a >pulsation amplitude that has decreased over the last 50 yr. In this >study we have used this property to see whether the amplitude decrease >during the last 15 yr has had any effect on upper atmosphere heating. >We obtained IUE high- and low-resolution spectra but found no change in >either the Mg II chromospheric emission or the flux at 1800 ý between >1978 and 1993 when the pulsation amplitude dropped by 50% (from 2.8 to >1.6 km s-1). The energy distribution from 1700 ý through V, B, R(KC), >and I(KC) is like that of a nonvariable supergiant of the same color >rather than a full amplitude Cepheid in that it has more flux at 1800 >ý than the full amplitude Cepheid delta Cep. Polaris also has a >rapidly changing period (3.2 s yr-1), in common with other overtone >pulsators. We argue that this is a natural consequence of the different >envelope locations that dominate pulsation growth rates in fundamental >and overtone pulsation. In fundamental mode pulsators, the deeper >envelope is more important in determining growth rates than for >overtone pulsators. For fundamental mode pulsators, evolutionary >changes in the radius produce approximately linear changes in period. >In overtone pulsators, pulsation reacts to small evolutionary changes >in a more unstable way because the modes are more sensitive to high >envelope features such as opacity bumps, and the growth rates for the >many closely spaced overtone modes change easily. Finally, the upper >limit to the X-ray flux from an Einstein observation implies that the >companion in the astrometric orbit is earlier than F4 V. The >combination of upper and lower limits on the companion from IUE and >Einstein respectively catch the companion mass between 1.7 and 1.4 >Msolar. The X-ray limit is consistent with the more distant companion >alpha UMi B being a physical companion in a hierarchal triple system. >However the X-ray limits require that the even more distant companions >alpha UMi C and D are too old to be physically associated with Polaris. > Polaris also has a rapidly changing period (3.2 s yr-1), You ARE getting desperate. >http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2002ApJ...567.1121E&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= > > >Title: > Study of period changes for 38 RR Lyrae variables in the globular >cluster M15 >Authors: > Smith, H. A.; Sandage, A. >Affiliation: > AA(Mount Wilson and Las Campanas Observatories, Pasadena, CA), >AB(Mount Wilson and Las Campanas Observatories, Pasadena, CA) >Journal: > Astronomical Journal, vol. 86, Dec. 1981, p. 1870-1881. (AJ Homepage) >Publication Date: > 12/1981 >Category: > Astronomy >Origin: > STI >NASA/STI Keywords: > CEPHEID VARIABLES, GLOBULAR CLUSTERS, PERIODIC VARIATIONS, STAR >CLUSTERS, STELLAR EVOLUTION, COLOR-MAGNITUDE DIAGRAM, >HERTZSPRUNG-RUSSELL DIAGRAM, STELLAR LUMINOSITY, STELLAR OSCILLATIONS >DOI: > 10.1086/113066 >Bibliographic Code: > 1981AJ.....86.1870S > >Abstract >Of the 38 M15 RR Lyrae stars investigated, 19 have probably undergone >period changes between 1896 and 1978 of both abrupt and gradual >character. Five times as many stars are believed to have increased in >period as decreased, and period changes show no correlation with >position in the color-magnitude diagram, contrary to evolutionary >expectation. The ab-types variables tend to have larger changes than >the c types, but the difference in the mean rate of period change for a >band c-type variables is found to be too small to be significant. It is >suggested that observations of the M15 variables over the next century >may clarify the possibility of evolutionary period change detection, >despite short-period noise due to erratic changes in the stellar >radius. I will not comment of Lyrae stars because I don't yet have a theory about them. Nor does anyone else, it seems. >http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=1981AJ.....86.1870S&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= > >Title: > Period changes of Cepheid variables. I - Secular period changes >Authors: > Szabados, L. >Affiliation: > AA(Konkoly Obszervatorium, Budapest, Hungary) >Journal: > Astrophysics and Space Science (ISSN 0004-640X), vol. 96, no. 1, Oct. >1983, p. 185-194. Research supported by the Magyar Tudomanyos Akademia. >(Ap&SS Homepage) >Publication Date: > 10/1983 >Category: > Astrophysics >Origin: > STI >NASA/STI Keywords: > CEPHEID VARIABLES, SECULAR VARIATIONS, STELLAR EVOLUTION, STELLAR >OSCILLATIONS, HERTZSPRUNG-RUSSELL DIAGRAM, LIGHT CURVE >Bibliographic Code: > 1983Ap&SS..96..185S > >Abstract >Secular period changes of one hundred northern Cepheids are >investigated with the help of O-C diagrams. With the classical Cepheids >the rate of observed period changes is in good agreement with that >determined from stellar evolution theory. The period noise cannot mask >the evolutionary period changes especially in longer period Cepheids >for which the occurrence of parabolic O-C graphs is unusually frequent. What makes you think that light speed remains constant from star to Earth over even a five day period? The part of space through which the light has to travel might be quite different, eg, feature a gas cloud, or something like that. That would be enough to explaoin the 'noise'. It is a long distance analogy of the Earth's atmoshere causing stars to 'twinkle'. > >http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=1983Ap%26SS..96..185S&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= > >Jerry I repeat, you are getting desperate. Everything you say gives me more ideas and strengthens the BaT. One day and with your continued 'assistance', I will be able to write a formal paper. HW. www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm Sometimes I feel like a complete failure. The most useful thing I have ever done is prove Einstein wrong.
From: Henri Wilson on 5 Jul 2005 04:32 On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 00:04:12 +0000 (UTC), bz <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> wrote: >H@..(Henri Wilson) wrote in >news:i4fjc1td10jgihtdv155ffl8357s205nqu(a)4ax.com: > >> On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:47:01 +0000 (UTC), bz <bz+sp(a)ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu> >>>Jerry has shown you articles. They give error figures. The figures are >>>the kinds of figures I would expect to see from stars that vary due to >>>internal processes. >>> >>>It would be interesting to compare the errors for cepheids with the >>>errors for spectroscopic binaries. >> >> I am not surprised that you two will go down fighting. >> the fact is, quote, "cepheid periods are so constant one can used them >> as a clock". > >Hour glasses are used as clocks. Sundials are used as clocks. The >positions of the moons of jupiter are used as clocks (and were accurate >enough for sailers to use to find their longitude). > >I don't suggest you throw away your wristwatch and start using a cepheid. >It won't fit in your pocket and it won't keep very good time. Twinkle twinkle little star, Batists know just what you are. When you orbit way up high Your twinkle slows and tends to die. >>> >>>So, how does this 'large orbit' around the galactic center have anything >>>to do with time compression. >> >> The amount of information reaching a distant observer per unit time will >> depend on the position of the small barycentre around the large orbit. >> Information is compressed, rather than TIME. >> >> You will have to run my program to get a better understanding. Go to >> 'start page' and then 'time compression'. > >That is not an explanation of why the orbital speed around the galactic >center would have anything to do with time or information compression. > >It might have something to do with distance for earth. It might have >something to do with relative velocity wrt earth but saying it depends on >something you have decided to call the 'large orbit' of the barycentre >makes no sense. Show me the math that allows you to justify such an idea. Look up 'Sekerin'. He thought of it before I did. > >>>> Well, I have now shown why the 'GR correction' in GPS clocks is a >>>> complete nonsense. >>> >>>How does LET's or SR/GR/EEP establishment that light moves at c wrt >>>everything, how does that show the GR correction in GPS clocks as >>>complete nonsense? >> >> Read my thread 'GPS GR CORRECTION MYTH' > >I read it. No one there is supporting your claims. > >Here is my comment: > >you said: >> Conclusion: The clock rate has obviously changed ""physically"" due to >> experiencing lots of g's and being placed in free fall orbit where it >> cuts through the Earths' fields.. >> >> The proclaimed 'GR correction' is plain nonsense. >> > >The clocks were almost certainly tested before launch in centrifuges in >order to makes sure they could withstand the launch forces. > >In fact I would predict that during the testing, while the clocks were >undergoing high G forces, I would be willing to bet that the clocks ran >slower and once the centrifuge stopped, the clock rate went back to >'normal' for the rate at the G force then experienced. > >There is absolutely no chance that physical damage to that many different >satellites would cause them all to require the same correction. Don't worry about that. HW. www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm Sometimes I feel like a complete failure. The most useful thing I have ever done is prove Einstein wrong.
From: G on 5 Jul 2005 04:46
Henri Wilson wrote: > On 4 Jul 2005 18:11:43 -0700, "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > >Henri Wilson wrote: > >> On 4 Jul 2005 16:22:37 -0700, "Jerry" <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > > >> http://weblore.com/richard/ru_cam_ex_cepheid_star.htm > >> "Cepheids are known for their precise variability which can be measured to a > >> fraction of a second." > >> > >> http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/deltacep.html > >> "Delta Cep is one of the few easily-visible variables, its magnitude changing > >> from 3.5 to 4.3 and back over an amazingly regular period of 5 days 8 hours 47 > >> minutes and 32 seconds, the star acting like a natural clock. " > > > >Turner, JAAVSO Volume 26, 1998 101 > >MONITORING THE EVOLUTION OF CEPHEID VARIABLES > >David G. Turner > >Saint Mary's University > >Halifax, Nova Scotia B3H 3C3 > >Canada > >Presented at the Annual Meeting of the AAVSO, October 25, 1997 > >Abstract > >Described here are preliminary results of a pilot project to monitor > >changes > >in the ephemerides of northern hemisphere Cepheids using an SBIG camera > >attached to the 0.4-m telescope of the campus observatory at Saint > >Mary's > >University. Epochs of maximum light for fifteen Cepheids have been > >derived using published light curves for each variable as templates, > >and the > >results are being used to update the O-C ephemerides for the program > >stars. > >Results for BB Her are presented here. Period changes for Cepheid > >variables > >are demonstrated to be an excellent means of pinpointing their > >evolutionary > >status, as well as for investigating other peculiarities of the class. > >http://www.aavso.org/publications/journal/v26n2/turner.pdf > > > > > > > >VLTI watches the pulsation of four southern Cepheids > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Thanks to the very high spatial resolution of the VLTI interferometer, > >a team of french astronomers led by Pierre Kervella from Paris > >Observatory, has measured directly the change of size of four Cepheids, > >during their pulsation cycle. The mean size of three other stars was > >also measured. By combining these observations with spectroscopic > >measurements of radial velocity, it was then possible to measure > >precisely the distances in a quasi-geometrical way, and thus to > >calibrate the zero point of the empirical Period-Luminosity relation of > >Cepheids. These observations are an important sterp forwards an > >independent verification of the extragalactic distance scale by > >interferometry. > >http://www.obspm.fr/actual/nouvelle/oct04/cep.en.shtml > > > > You are getting desperate > > Nothing here conflicts with the BaT > > > > >Title: > > Polaris: Amplitude, Period Change, and Companions > >Authors: > > Evans, Nancy Remage; Sasselov, Dimitar D.; Short, C. Ian > >Affiliation: > > AA(Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, > >MA 02138), AB(Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, 60 Garden > >Street, Cambridge, MA 02138), AC(Florida Atlantic University, Physics > >Department, 777 Glades Road, Boca Raton, FL 33431-0991) > >Journal: > > The Astrophysical Journal, Volume 567, Issue 2, pp. 1121-1130. (ApJ > >Homepage) > >Publication Date: > > 03/2002 > >Origin: > > UCP > >ApJ Keywords: > > Stars: Binaries: Visual, Stars: Variables: Cepheids, Stars: > >Atmospheres, stars: individual (Polaris, alpha Ursae Minoris), Stars: > >Oscillations > >Abstract Copyright: > > (c) 2002: The American Astronomical Society > >DOI: > > 10.1086/338583 > >Bibliographic Code: > > 2002ApJ...567.1121E > > > >Abstract > >Polaris has presented us with the rare phenomenon of a Cepheid with a > >pulsation amplitude that has decreased over the last 50 yr. In this > >study we have used this property to see whether the amplitude decrease > >during the last 15 yr has had any effect on upper atmosphere heating. > >We obtained IUE high- and low-resolution spectra but found no change in > >either the Mg II chromospheric emission or the flux at 1800 Å between > >1978 and 1993 when the pulsation amplitude dropped by 50% (from 2.8 to > >1.6 km s-1). The energy distribution from 1700 Å through V, B, R(KC), > >and I(KC) is like that of a nonvariable supergiant of the same color > >rather than a full amplitude Cepheid in that it has more flux at 1800 > >Å than the full amplitude Cepheid delta Cep. Polaris also has a > >rapidly changing period (3.2 s yr-1), in common with other overtone > >pulsators. We argue that this is a natural consequence of the different > >envelope locations that dominate pulsation growth rates in fundamental > >and overtone pulsation. In fundamental mode pulsators, the deeper > >envelope is more important in determining growth rates than for > >overtone pulsators. For fundamental mode pulsators, evolutionary > >changes in the radius produce approximately linear changes in period. > >In overtone pulsators, pulsation reacts to small evolutionary changes > >in a more unstable way because the modes are more sensitive to high > >envelope features such as opacity bumps, and the growth rates for the > >many closely spaced overtone modes change easily. Finally, the upper > >limit to the X-ray flux from an Einstein observation implies that the > >companion in the astrometric orbit is earlier than F4 V. The > >combination of upper and lower limits on the companion from IUE and > >Einstein respectively catch the companion mass between 1.7 and 1.4 > >Msolar. The X-ray limit is consistent with the more distant companion > >alpha UMi B being a physical companion in a hierarchal triple system. > >However the X-ray limits require that the even more distant companions > >alpha UMi C and D are too old to be physically associated with Polaris. > > > > Polaris also has a rapidly changing period (3.2 s yr-1), > > You ARE getting desperate. > > >http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2002ApJ...567.1121E&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= > > > > > >Title: > > Study of period changes for 38 RR Lyrae variables in the globular > >cluster M15 > >Authors: > > Smith, H. A.; Sandage, A. > >Affiliation: > > AA(Mount Wilson and Las Campanas Observatories, Pasadena, CA), > >AB(Mount Wilson and Las Campanas Observatories, Pasadena, CA) > >Journal: > > Astronomical Journal, vol. 86, Dec. 1981, p. 1870-1881. (AJ Homepage) > >Publication Date: > > 12/1981 > >Category: > > Astronomy > >Origin: > > STI > >NASA/STI Keywords: > > CEPHEID VARIABLES, GLOBULAR CLUSTERS, PERIODIC VARIATIONS, STAR > >CLUSTERS, STELLAR EVOLUTION, COLOR-MAGNITUDE DIAGRAM, > >HERTZSPRUNG-RUSSELL DIAGRAM, STELLAR LUMINOSITY, STELLAR OSCILLATIONS > >DOI: > > 10.1086/113066 > >Bibliographic Code: > > 1981AJ.....86.1870S > > > >Abstract > >Of the 38 M15 RR Lyrae stars investigated, 19 have probably undergone > >period changes between 1896 and 1978 of both abrupt and gradual > >character. Five times as many stars are believed to have increased in > >period as decreased, and period changes show no correlation with > >position in the color-magnitude diagram, contrary to evolutionary > >expectation. The ab-types variables tend to have larger changes than > >the c types, but the difference in the mean rate of period change for a > >band c-type variables is found to be too small to be significant. It is > >suggested that observations of the M15 variables over the next century > >may clarify the possibility of evolutionary period change detection, > >despite short-period noise due to erratic changes in the stellar > >radius. > > I will not comment of Lyrae stars because I don't yet have a theory about them. > Nor does anyone else, it seems. > > >http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=1981AJ.....86.1870S&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= > > > >Title: > > Period changes of Cepheid variables. I - Secular period changes > >Authors: > > Szabados, L. > >Affiliation: > > AA(Konkoly Obszervatorium, Budapest, Hungary) > >Journal: > > Astrophysics and Space Science (ISSN 0004-640X), vol. 96, no. 1, Oct. > >1983, p. 185-194. Research supported by the Magyar Tudomanyos Akademia. > >(Ap&SS Homepage) > >Publication Date: > > 10/1983 > >Category: > > Astrophysics > >Origin: > > STI > >NASA/STI Keywords: > > CEPHEID VARIABLES, SECULAR VARIATIONS, STELLAR EVOLUTION, STELLAR > >OSCILLATIONS, HERTZSPRUNG-RUSSELL DIAGRAM, LIGHT CURVE > >Bibliographic Code: > > 1983Ap&SS..96..185S > > > >Abstract > >Secular period changes of one hundred northern Cepheids are > >investigated with the help of O-C diagrams. With the classical Cepheids > >the rate of observed period changes is in good agreement with that > >determined from stellar evolution theory. The period noise cannot mask > >the evolutionary period changes especially in longer period Cepheids > >for which the occurrence of parabolic O-C graphs is unusually frequent. > > What makes you think that light speed remains constant from star to Earth over > even a five day period? > The part of space through which the light has to travel might be quite > different, eg, feature a gas cloud, or something like that. > That would be enough to explaoin the 'noise'. It is a long distance analogy of > the Earth's atmoshere causing stars to 'twinkle'. Henri, it may interest you to know, or you may already know that the atmosphere inteferes witht the GPS satellite system and the time taken from the radio signals from ground to earth varies to the extent that it is "manually" corrected for. The speed of radio waves from ground to satellite and back are not taken as travelling at c. > > > > > >http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=1983Ap%26SS..96..185S&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format= > > > >Jerry > > I repeat, you are getting desperate. > > Everything you say gives me more ideas and strengthens the BaT. Have you ever given the postulates of Bat as AE did with SRT? If it is an previous post just tell me and I will search. I am one of those "first principles" people > > One day and with your continued 'assistance', I will be able to write a formal > paper. > > HW. > www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm > > Sometimes I feel like a complete failure. > The most useful thing I have ever done is prove Einstein wrong. |