Swamp cooler question
in [Design]
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From: Joerg on 16 Jul 2010 18:11 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:44:18 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:59:20 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Mark wrote: >>>>> Someone mentioned adding a BLEED kit... I agree. >>>>> >>>>> It is a VERY good thing to do >>>>> >>>>> Think about it,,, without a bleed kit, water + minerals go in and >>>>> water is evaporated, leaving ALL the minerals in the pads. >>>>> >>>>> With a bleed kit, say 10% of the incoming water exits via the bleed, >>>>> so the minerals come to an equilibrium. >>>>> >>>>> I used a small hose and would use the bleed water to water the >>>>> greens... >>>>> >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> We'd have greens underneath so that's easy. But why is it that there is >>>> next to nothing in technological progress in fields like this and the >>>> user must redesign units that have been partially screwed up since >>>> decades. So far: >>>> >>>> a. Must install bleed kit cuz mfgs failed to. >>>> >>>> b. Must somehow anchor unit because high winds would move it and mash up >>>> drywall cutout inside. >>>> >>>> c. Must regularly drain unit because mosquitos and bugs will breed in >>>> there out here. Because mfgs still use old-fashioned pumps instead of >>>> valves and spiders. >>>> >>>> d. Must install screens against critters and bugs because mfgs forgot or >>>> don't care. It would take the hornets out here about 15 seconds to drill >>>> themselves a nice big hole. >>>> >>>> e. Must build my own winterizing covers (_not_ a $20 canvas one) so cold >>>> air won't leak in, because mfgs forgot. >>>> >>>> Hmm ... >>> Californica must be in the dark ages. >> >> No, the same units are sold all over the country. >> >> >>> All your needs are available here, mostly pre-installed. >>> >> So how do they keep the bugs and critters out? Remember, a hornet won't >> even need to flex its muscles before drilling itself through one of >> those Aspen pads. >> >> >>> And you use a "slide" in the ductwork to keep cold air out. >>> >> Huh? Slide? I know the diverter thingies, mostly the motor-driven >> industrial ones. I have yet to see one that's truly airtight. > > I don't remember for certain the official name of a "slide". But it's > a piece of ductwork where you slip in a sheet-metal "door" to block > flow. It fits in a felt-backed set of sheet metal fingers, so only > really small critters can get thru ;-) > Felt-backed? For the insects around here that will be a piece of cake. I've seen a hornet drill itself through a 2*4. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 16 Jul 2010 18:33 Artemus wrote: > "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message > news:8abdv3FlndU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> Mark wrote: >> >> We'd have greens underneath so that's easy. But why is it that there is >> next to nothing in technological progress in fields like this > > There is. Google "coolerado". > http://www.coolerado.com/tech-info/how-coolerado-air-conditioners-work/ That does indeed look a bit more modern. Although the bug screen needs to be a lot finer so requires retrofitting as well. >> and the >> user must redesign units that have been partially screwed up since >> decades. So far: >> >> a. Must install bleed kit cuz mfgs failed to. > > It is not needed in all installations if the water is not hard, so why add > the expense? BTW don't feed your cooler soft water as the resulting > crystals will come off the pads and get blown into the house. > Thanks for the hint. Our water is fairly soft. The only thing that might be needed is a charcoal filter because our water is quite chlorinated. I regularly measured 1-2ppm. Occasionally you can sense a whiff of chlorine smell when flushing a toilet around here, when the bowl fills up again. >> b. Must somehow anchor unit because high winds would move it and mash up >> drywall cutout inside. > > True, but this isn't the manufacturers problem as all installations aren't > the same. > The suggested mounting method with the unit dangling off a couple of chains is unsafe and pathetic. And has a cheap shanty town look to it :-) >> c. Must regularly drain unit because mosquitos and bugs will breed in >> there out here. Because mfgs still use old-fashioned pumps instead of >> valves and spiders. > > How do you know this? ... That's what people out here told me happens on occasion. One reason some folks are hesitant to use swamp coolers. The bugs don't go through the pump, eventually they just start buzzing up and look for the easiest path. And that isn't the one through the Aspen pads ... > ... AZ has plenty of bugs and, in the monsoon > season, skeeters too. But I've never had or seen a problem with them > breeding in the cooler. Maybe the pump mascerates the nymphs? > If you don't want to use a pump you can always just plumb the feed > water tube directly to the distribution spider in the top. This will use a > lot more water but the drain can go to a garden or other use so maybe > it will work for you. This will also virtually stop the calcium build up. > I've always wondered why they don't do that. Valve dosage isn't that new. >> d. Must install screens against critters and bugs because mfgs forgot or >> don't care. It would take the hornets out here about 15 seconds to drill >> themselves a nice big hole. > > We had hornets, bees, wasps, & yellow jackets and never had one come > in the house thru the cooler. Adding screens would add cost for the > manufacturer and they are not needed in all (most?) cases so they don't. Well, they could mold in the grooves for one. Won't cost one dime more. >> e. Must build my own winterizing covers (_not_ a $20 canvas one) so cold >> air won't leak in, because mfgs forgot. >> > Again this depends on the installation and local climate. Most places that have hot dry summers also have rather cold winters, like here. I mean, what would it take to offer at least a decent-looking insulated snap-on cover for the outlet in the house? They can charge for it and make a profit, just like they do with the ugly yellow canvas covers (which BTW attract some of the bugs). I'd gladly pay $50 or whatever than have yet another honey-do project :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Nico Coesel on 17 Jul 2010 17:42 "Artemus" <bogus(a)invalid.org> wrote: > >"Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >news:8a93gbFfidU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> Hey guys, >> >> Thinking about installing a smaller unit, no chance to pipe in a big one >> because of the way the house is built. The instructions that come with >> units like this are paltry: >> >> >http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100143013&navFlow=3&keyword=WCM28&langId=-1&searchRedirect=WCM28&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.integration.endeca.EndecaDataBean%40537e385a&ddkey=Search >> >> Essentially just "hang it up, affix plumbing, turn on". Great. Our HW >> stores can only order them, you can't look at a unit. I want to place it >> on a deck and cut a hole into the wall. Questions: >> >> Can they sit on a wooden deck or _must_ they be hung? >> >> How far does the drain and overflow stuff stick out the bottom? They >> don't say, but I assume the unit must be raised for that and depending >> on how far I could either use or not use such a unit. >> >> How are they powered? Power cord inside or on the outside part? >> Amazingly not one word about that in the installation guide. I thought >> this is kind of important ... >> >> -- >> Regards, Joerg >> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM. > >My comments are based on living with swamp coolers in Arizona >for 40+ years. > >Yes it can sit on a deck, or concrete blocks, a wood or metal frame, >etc. It is not necessary to provide 100% support under it, a frame of >2x4's around the outside edge of the base is adequate. > >The drain fitting sticks out the bottom less than 1" and is threaded for >a garden hose. When installed the garden hose will stick straight down. >You can install an elbow for tight installations. The overflow is entirely >inside the cooler box. No drain shutoff is necessary. PVC pipe is ok >for the drain line. > >Installing a bleed off kit will extend the life of your pads and greatly >reduce the calcium build up the metal parts. >http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-47672/Detail > >The unit you linked to will have 1 external electric cord with a standard >plug. All other wiring will be factory installed inside the unit. > >For winterizing: unplug the electrical, drain the water and wrap it with >a tarp. If you have freezing temperatures you will need to purge the >feed water tubing too. Insulation is usually done by covering the inside >part with a cover of ones own making. >Art Sounds cumbersome. A good airconditioner (with high EER and COP ratings) which can also be used as a heater would make more sense. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico(a)nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joerg on 17 Jul 2010 17:50 Nico Coesel wrote: > "Artemus" <bogus(a)invalid.org> wrote: > >> "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message >> news:8a93gbFfidU1(a)mid.individual.net... >>> Hey guys, >>> >>> Thinking about installing a smaller unit, no chance to pipe in a big one >>> because of the way the house is built. The instructions that come with >>> units like this are paltry: >>> >>> >> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100143013&navFlow=3&keyword=WCM28&langId=-1&searchRedirect=WCM28&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.integration.endeca.EndecaDataBean%40537e385a&ddkey=Search >>> Essentially just "hang it up, affix plumbing, turn on". Great. Our HW >>> stores can only order them, you can't look at a unit. I want to place it >>> on a deck and cut a hole into the wall. Questions: >>> >>> Can they sit on a wooden deck or _must_ they be hung? >>> >>> How far does the drain and overflow stuff stick out the bottom? They >>> don't say, but I assume the unit must be raised for that and depending >>> on how far I could either use or not use such a unit. >>> >>> How are they powered? Power cord inside or on the outside part? >>> Amazingly not one word about that in the installation guide. I thought >>> this is kind of important ... >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, Joerg >>> >>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>> >>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>> Use another domain or send PM. >> My comments are based on living with swamp coolers in Arizona >> for 40+ years. >> >> Yes it can sit on a deck, or concrete blocks, a wood or metal frame, >> etc. It is not necessary to provide 100% support under it, a frame of >> 2x4's around the outside edge of the base is adequate. >> >> The drain fitting sticks out the bottom less than 1" and is threaded for >> a garden hose. When installed the garden hose will stick straight down. >> You can install an elbow for tight installations. The overflow is entirely >> inside the cooler box. No drain shutoff is necessary. PVC pipe is ok >> for the drain line. >> >> Installing a bleed off kit will extend the life of your pads and greatly >> reduce the calcium build up the metal parts. >> http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-47672/Detail >> >> The unit you linked to will have 1 external electric cord with a standard >> plug. All other wiring will be factory installed inside the unit. >> >> For winterizing: unplug the electrical, drain the water and wrap it with >> a tarp. If you have freezing temperatures you will need to purge the >> feed water tubing too. Insulation is usually done by covering the inside >> part with a cover of ones own making. >> Art > > Sounds cumbersome. A good airconditioner (with high EER and COP > ratings) which can also be used as a heater would make more sense. > It really doesn't because it is not very eco-friendly. A heat pump or classic A/C eats several times the energy of a swamp cooler no matter how efficient it may be. We have a fairly good A/C system here. Older, but for its day it is quite efficient. Slurps 7kW, many of the neighbor's units are a lot higher. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
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